Supreme Stealth and Invisibility

[The_Hanged_Man]

First the ability:

Supreme Stealth:

Supreme Stealth (Ex): Choose one of the following senses: blindsight, scent, or tremorsense. A creature using the chosen sense can’t automatically detect you, and must succeed at Perception checks as normal to do so. If you choose blindsight, this ability also affects blindsense. You can select this ability up to three times, each time choosing a different sense.

How does this ability interact with invisibility or other forms of concealment (say darkness or fog)?

Stealth requires cover/concealment and that you are not being observed. Let's say there is a monster with blindsight and a PC with supreme stealth. What now counts as concealment against blindsight? Blindsight normally ignores concealment, but does supreme stealth defeat that? Or would an invis supremely stealthy person still need to find cover to maintain stealth? Let's say the PC is not using stealth. Does the monster still automatically detect the invisible PC?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this one.

[Avianfoo]

Logically (which has been noted before means very little in the face of actual rules) but logically, if a creature only has blindsight, then cover/concealment have no meaning and as such do not provide any bonuses or penalties to supreme stealth. I would rule straight opposed stealth and perception rolls, no cover/concealment required since blindsight effectively ignores those. But for a creature with multiple senses e.g. normal sight, and blindsight, cover would still be required as normal.

An invisible supreme stealth character does not need to find cover, however if they are actively not trying to be stealthy then the blindsense creature must still do a perception check but its DC will effectively be the bonus that invisibility provides (20 or 40).

That is my take on it. Others are free to comment.

[The_Hanged_Man]

Alright. I think that I'm going to rule that Supreme Stealth counts as concealment versus the chosen sense which would allow stealth rolls. Invisibility, or other types of existing concealment, will be ignored as normal. Does this sound reasonable?

[DeltaOneG]

Sounds reasonable to me.