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for the PRD, aside from the potential to be unavailable if there is no internet access, it is also campaign neutral, whereas PFS is campaign specific.
You worship the god XYZ out of ISWG? Great, but the PRD won't help you. Even if it is a primary deity out of the CRB, you won't find anything about them in the PRD. Anything tied to them is renamed or gone and if renamed, one does not have the needed prerequisite of being a follower of XYZ listed in the entry.
While it is a great resource for home games, for PFS it should not be opened to general use as a means of validation of aspects of PCs.
EDIT: As to what may come in the next few days from Mike and crew, I personally would love to see photocopies of physical books be allowed. Yes, there is potential for abuse, but there is also potential for abuse with printouts of pdfs. And to be clear, I run both with physical and pdf versions of the majority of the paizo material I have; the physical books get much love for home games and local conventions, while pdfs tend to travel better for longer hauls, especially if there is a flight involved.
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The rule is what it is until it isn't. Deal with it or don't. But don't be surprised if you don't, that a GM may not let you play that character or use an ability or spell or feat.
I completely agree with this. In fact, it should go without saying -- but it isn't what I took exception to.
In any event, I certainly didn't mean to bash you (or anyone else). If I am one of the people that made you feel that way, I'm sorry.
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The rule is what it is until it isn't. Deal with it or don't. But don't be surprised if you don't, that a GM may not let you play that character or use an ability or spell or feat.I completely agree with this. In fact, it should go without saying -- but it isn't what I took exception to.
In any event, I certainly didn't mean to bash you (or anyone else). If that's how I made you feel, I'm sorry.
Understood. But I hope everyone remembers that V-O's are people too. We are just as passionate about this game as anyone else. We are human. We have feelings and emotions.
And when we try to be helpful, people just nitpick and bash and take our words out of context, it frustrates us (as it would anyone treated as such), and sometimes we respond out of that frustration.
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I am almost surprised there hasn't been an ITunes option yet. Buy the spell, feat, trait, whatever and you can print a lot of things specific just to your character on a single sheet.Itunes only sells books that require the IBook software to read. Which means that such books ARE NOT readable by Macs or Windows devices. So it makes much more sense for Paizo to sell PDFs which are readable by almost anything INCLUDING IOS IBook software.
From other threads, I recall there's also layout issues with a lot of the ebook formats that PDFs already handle (tables layouts, graphics, and text wrapping around tables and graphics come to mind). I know with iTunes University and the relevant textbooks some of that has been solved, but then we're back to a format that is only available to iOS devices.
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And of course Apple would be expecting it's cut of every book sold.From other threads, I recall there's also layout issues with a lot of the ebook formats that PDFs already handle (tables layouts, graphics, and text wrapping around tables and graphics come to mind). I know with iTunes University and the relevant textbooks some of that has been solved, but then we're back to a format that is only available to iOS devices.I am almost surprised there hasn't been an ITunes option yet. Buy the spell, feat, trait, whatever and you can print a lot of things specific just to your character on a single sheet.Itunes only sells books that require the IBook software to read. Which means that such books ARE NOT readable by Macs or Windows devices. So it makes much more sense for Paizo to sell PDFs which are readable by almost anything INCLUDING IOS IBook software.
It was just a metaphor for a marketing strategy. Sell smaller chunks of intellectual property at a smaller price. People only buy exactly what they want and it is very easy to transport.
While people might be pissed about buying a PDF for a book they already own, they might be ok with paying a buck to get a feat, next to a bunch of other individual feats from other books, on a PFS legal single page printout.
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You need to step back and calm down, Matthew.
Just because Andy and Adam dont agree with the rules changes you are suggesting and are giving out reasons for why they wouldnt work and why Paizo most likely implement them doesnt mean they are power tripping.
Furthermore, please point me to a post where someone called you a lazy bum for buying the hardbacks?
The rule has been, from the beginning of PFS, that you MUST have the source with you in some legal format when you play your character. my wife and I didnt want to bring all of our hardbacks to Gencon last year so we bought a Kindle and some pdfs to put on it and just brought that and the softbacks we need.
Do I expect everyone to be able to afford that? No, I dont. But other suggestions have been made in this thread (a rolling case for the books, make a list of what all books you will need for each character, etc) for how to help with the fact that maybe you bought all your hardbacks before realizing this might be an issue for you.
Something else that might help reduce the number of hardcovers is the Trait Document download that can be found here. That document includes all of the Traits found in the APG, and I believe is a legal resource on its own. Ss if the only thing you are using from the APG is a trait or two, you could just print that out and bring it with you instead of bringing the whole hardback. :)
Well a non-paizo doing something answer to the woes of hard back book owners is to make PFS characters for cons only that use less books than their normal characters.
Still doesn't do anything to the problem of PDFs being more attractive for PFS than books. Most would assume Paizo makes more money off of books, so for them to create a system that discourages book purchases seems counterproductive.
Basically PFS players who bought books spent MORE money on a product that is MORE difficult for them to use.
People being upset that their more expensive product is less useful than the cheaper alternative is something to be expected. Especially when they voice there frustration and are told "well you should have bought PDFs".
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I think it only discourages the people who can't/don't want to cart around the books.
At GenCon I saw plenty of players (all sizes) with multiple bags, large rolling tubs, etc. that didn't mind having that volume of literature. I have seen the same at local game days. Contrariwise I also witnessed plenty of people with tablets using PDFs of the books.
Paizo will make money catering to both crowds of PFS players IN ADDITION to the large amount of non-PFS gamers that purchases their products. By clarifying this rule, in no way will they start to lose sales. Methinks they are steadily gaining in the market regardless of PFS rules clarifications (look at how fast the card game sold out at GenCon).
I think that photocopies of books should be allowed (especially for those with special needs). Here is my thinking:
VCs have the ability to print off business cards to hand out to game stores. Have them give you a card with their signature and date on the back along with the name of the hard copy book that you show them. One book per card. You then collect VC business cards for each hard cover book you have. Soft cover books you still need to bring with you, but this way you don't need to lug around the Ultimates line.
Most would assume Paizo makes more money off of books, so for them to create a system that discourages book purchases seems counterproductive.I would imagine that the margin on the PDFs is pretty good since their printing cost is $0.
That's why it is an assumption.
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Most would assume Paizo makes more money off of books, so for them to create a system that discourages book purchases seems counterproductive.I would imagine that the margin on the PDFs is pretty good since their printing cost is $0.
Distribution costs are not, however, $0 for the PDFs. Yes, they're relatively low, but the servers and bandwidth are not free, nor is cleaning up the PDF layout for distribution (the PDFs sent to the printers have printer marks to show where to cut the pages, etc.). Still, I understand your core point that PDFs have much lower margins than the hardcopy versions.
(look at how fast the card game sold out at GenCon).
That card game was fantastic! Best deck builder based game I demo'd.
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Here is my thinking:
VCs have the ability to print off business cards to hand out to game stores. Have them give you a card with their signature and date on the back along with the name of the hard copy book that you show them. One book per card. You then collect VC business cards for each hard cover book you have. Soft cover books you still need to bring with you, but this way you don't need to lug around the Ultimates line.
Or the campaign could just run on the assumption that players aren't cheating liars (oh! look it already does) and accept our word that we own material we use.
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Or the campaign could just run on the assumption that players aren't cheating liars (oh! look it already does) and accept our word that we own material we use.Here is my thinking:
VCs have the ability to print off business cards to hand out to game stores. Have them give you a card with their signature and date on the back along with the name of the hard copy book that you show them. One book per card. You then collect VC business cards for each hard cover book you have. Soft cover books you still need to bring with you, but this way you don't need to lug around the Ultimates line.
Would you care to edit your post to provide constructive criticism of my idea?
Or the campaign could just run on the assumption that players aren't cheating liars (oh! look it already does) and accept our word that we own material we use.What shall we do if we find out a player doesn't?
Well it's your fault for looking! What happened to the trust in this relationship?
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Well it's your fault for looking! What happened to the trust in this relationship?Or the campaign could just run on the assumption that players aren't cheating liars (oh! look it already does) and accept our word that we own material we use.What shall we do if we find out a player doesn't?
That didn't answer my question.
That didn't answer my question.Well it's your fault for looking! What happened to the trust in this relationship?Or the campaign could just run on the assumption that players aren't cheating liars (oh! look it already does) and accept our word that we own material we use.What shall we do if we find out a player doesn't?
Still not an answer.
Clearly only a vile subhuman would cheat. Therefore, whoever finds out about a cheater should devour them, destroying all evidence such a person ever existed.
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Most would assume Paizo makes more money off of books, so for them to create a system that discourages book purchases seems counterproductive.I would imagine that the margin on the PDFs is pretty good since their printing cost is $0.
I can assure you that editorial costs are way higher than printing costs.
You have present all those lovely images? all of them have to be paid and they aren't cheap.
Every step of a book preparation have a cost, the margin on the PDF of the hardbound almost certainly is smaller that the margin on the physical book, but it is worth it for Paizo as selling them on the cheap hook people into playing.
Look the price of the AP and other softbound PDF against the physical copy. That is the normal proportion between the cost of a printed product and his PDF. The PDF of those products cost 2/3 of the physical copy, against the hardbound PDF costing 1/4 (or 1/5 for the CRB) of the physical copy.
The larger number of hardbound sold help reducing the editorial cost, but, as the book are constantly revised, not by that much.
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Again, why do you think "too bad you bought the book, buy a PDF" is the best answer Paizo can provide?There has been no better answer. It's certainly not a viable solution to bare the PRD for all players in PFS.
You stated several reasons why someone might want books despite having PDFs for convention purposes, and I do agree that the reading experience of a hardcover is easier. Is it so hard to believe that I think owning both is a good thing? Just don't complain about them being heavy when you could weigh them in your hands before you purchased them.
There have been a SLEW of better answers...however if your completely unwilling to budge ONE BIT...then yes there is no better answer...but then the problem isn't that there isn't a better answer...the problem is YOU.
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And to think people at gen con were wondering why PFS looses people in droves to home games.
How many of those players have you seen again?
You say this like its a bad thing. Seriously; of course people would play real campaigns if they are in a place and situation which allows them to have regular attendance in a group.
PFS is for the times when that is not possible, if you cannot attend gaming regularly or is there is no consistent campaign running near you or if you are lucky enough to travel away from home to a con. More modular games are valuable but of course you are going to give the the depth of a real campaign to get that convenience. I am happy with that since otherwise I would have no chance to game right now. Yes it sucks to not be able to play a character through a persistent story and it sucks that there are lots of cool character options that I will never be able to use in PFS either since they are banned or since I can't go to cons to get the boons I would need. At least PFS is something is what I'm saying and I am grateful for that.