| ClarkKent07 |
| Drejk |
From a browse I don't think it's too powerful; construct automaton looks comparable to eidolon without evolutions while the rest of the class abilities seems to be weaker than summoner's abilities.
I thought about similar class before (as probably any homebrewing fan of artificer/tinker-like class that would have a construct companion after seeing summoner and noticing that constructs use the same HD/BAB as outsiders in Pathfinder) and was going to take similar route, except using six levels of spells, using some sort of construction points in place of eidolon's evolutions and being much more magical class.
| williamoak |
A little questions: Are the technoliogical advancements a line (as in, you need 1 before you have 2), or can you pick and choose? It might be cool to have more of a "tech tree" type of advancement in any case.
Anyway, one constraint I can see (if my first thoughts are correct) is that you have a much shallower overal strength. Unless you put ALL your technological developement in either armor, weapons, or automaton, you wont have anything near the power of another class. I only see this as a late game issue, but it's a significant one.
The "prototypes" you get can be pretty useful, but you're getting less than a summoner anyway. I would see this class as pretty similar to a summoner.
| Drejk |
A little questions: Are the technoliogical advancements a line (as in, you need 1 before you have 2), or can you pick and choose? It might be cool to have more of a "tech tree" type of advancement in any case.
It's hard to notice but it states that you get them in order in the field chosen at the start (as far as I understood). It would greatly benefit from editing (and probably some rewrites here and there).
Anyway, one constraint I can see (if my first thoughts are correct) is that you have a much shallower overal strength. Unless you put ALL your technological developement in either armor, weapons, or automaton, you wont have anything near the power of another class. I only see this as a late game issue, but it's a significant one.
As I understand you do not get to cherry pick between "trees" you get one and only one with access to others so there is no problem with what you described.
I think that develop tech trees could be rewritten and rebalanced so investing in different fields would be not only possible but also non-detrimental to overall functionality of that class.
The "prototypes" you get can be pretty useful, but you're getting less than a summoner anyway. I would see this class as pretty similar to a summoner.
That's my feel as well.
Another problem is that the class description states that clockwork engineers excel at support role but the class abilities aren't much of support to the party: Tech armor? Personal. Tech weapons? Personal. Improved Automaton? Only as far as presence of any companion provides support to the party. The only actual support is a limited number of prototypes.
| ClarkKent07 |
Thanks for the great feedback guys.
Yes you have to take the tech lines in order to prevent cherry picking, but with feats you can take up to the 5th level in another tree.
I provided the list of feats at the end as a way to gain some of the benefits of the other trees but wanted to avoid again cherry picking here or there. Also as many of the abilities are cumulative they needed to be taken in order to avoid massive power jumps.
Drejk I will work on some editing and reworkind to improve clarity of intent.
Drejk, truth, I will rewrite the class description as my original idea started out as a support class but instead they became a very self sufficent, kind of stand on thier own class.
| Drejk |
A few thoughts:
Automaton seems to lack Intelligence score. In general that would mean it does not gain feats - while there is line that it does gain feats I think it would be good to write it as something along the lines:
Feats: Automatons gain a number of bonus feats, despite their lack of Intelligence score. Engineers can select any feat that their automaton qualifies for. Automaton feats are set once chosen, even if the construct is rebuilt.
Personally I think that rebuilding automaton should allow reselection of feats and other selectable features (assuming they will be added). Also, I would consider reducing cost of rebuilding of automaton to 200 gp/level (to match the cost of replacing familiar) as it is potentially very prone to destruction with its rather combat-oriented role. Or maybe leave the high cost if one wants to rebuild it quickly with option of reducing cost by spending more time. Maybe 200-500 gp per level minus 200-500 gp for each additional day spend making repairs?
Repair Construct feature is confusing: "the clockwork engineer can utilize components from his prototypes to repair a HD per level of prototype worth of damage to his automaton as a full round action." What did you mean by that? Does the engineer uses up one of his undeployed prototypes and heals the automaton of 1 hp per prototype level? Or heals it a number of hit points equal to automaton's HD multiplied by prototype level? Or did you meant something else.
Minor tools & gadgets feature seems to be replacement for cantrips feature of casters - I would either make it more like cantrips feature (engineer each day can prepare a 3 to 6 tools with each giving an unlimited number of uses of one particular cantrip - i.e. changing a number of tools from level+Int to amount closer to number of cantrips possessed by casters) *or* make it into something like
Multi-tools: An engineer possess a number of multi-purpose custom tools that can be quickly re-calibrated and jury-rigged to produce effects listed as 0th level schematics. An engineer can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his class level plus his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1).
I'll try to thin more about possible tweaks to Develop Tech.
Also, as far as I can tell from editing point of view Minor tools and gadgets entry should be placed above Develop Tech because it goes in the way of develop tech particular fields.
| ClarkKent07 |
All good points.
And yes the repair construct was intended to sacrafice undeployed prototypes to heal the automaton for 1 hd per prototype level.
I was concerned about the price of rebuilding but didn't want them to be throw away soldiers...but if 200gp/level seems appropriate I am open to that. I like the time based means of decreasing costs...alot actually.
I will work on Multi-tools, in truth that was picked up from build someone else made and should be retooled as you suggest.
I like the line about feats for the automaton and will add.
Changing feats on rebuild worries me again for the idea of a throw away soldier...I'll have to think on that one.
| Sauce987654321 |
It looks pretty cool. Not really going to comment if about if it's balanced or not, because I don't feel like looking in to in that much, right now.
I was looking at the schematics list (spell list) and I noticed that the effects were the same but with a different name. That's cool, but what do you think about making work slightly differently to make them more unique? What I mean is that, for example, Death Ray would function as Scorching Ray but with 120-ft. lines instead of rays, or Clockwork Strength targets self only.
Just wondering what you thought.
| ClarkKent07 |
Sauce - In truth, I think I will get around to making some of those changes in time...I do want it to FEEL different than just a partial caster, but haven't really put in the time to individually develop each schematic to make it different.
I would also like to eventually improve on the value/impact craft (engineering) could have on the class.
EDIT: I also purposely left the idea of schematics open so that a DM/player could develop thier own.
| williamoak |
How about making the class less combat-oriented? I knwo it might seem pointless (since pathfinder is centered around combat) I think it might be worth giving them the ability to have an engineering "discipline" (like civil vs mechanical vs aerospace etc). Maybe it could work like a profession? It would add to the flavor, although I dont know what specialties clockwork engineers would have.