Counterspell holes?

[Lormyr]

For those who may need a rules refresh, the rules for counterspelling can be found here: Counterspelling

I am going to highlight two important sentences that appear in those rules here:

1). To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell.

2). To complete the action, you must then cast an appropriate spell.

For further reference, a note on using dispel magic to counterspell (taken from the spell's description):

"Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell."

So here comes the question. By my reading of this, it appears there are numerous effects that would counter a counterspell. Example:

Wizard A has spell turning in effect. He casts disintegrate at Wizard B. Wizard B uses his readied action to counterspell, but because he has to target Wizard A and cast his own disintegrate or targeted dispel magic to do so, spell turning counters the counterspell and reflects it back upon Wizard B (reflects the spell used, not the counterspell effect)?

Another example:

Wizard A has a ring of counterspells (storing magic missile). Wizard A then casts magic missile at Wizard B, who uses his readied action to counter it with his own magic missile. Because Wizard B must target Wizard A and cast magic missile to counterspell, the ring of counters will counter his casting of magic missile and fizzle the spell so that his attempt to counterspell likewise fizzles?

Do others share this same understanding as it is written?

[Ravingdork]

Using a spell to counterspell is not the same as casting it against the target normally. I do not believe it would be reflected at all. Wizard A's spell would be counterspelled as normal.

[Lormyr]

Thanks for replying RD.

While it might be fair to say that counterspelling is not quite the same thing as casting against a target normally, the counterspelling rules do pretty clearly state that you must specifically target the caster you wish to counter, and then cast the spell needed to do so at that target.

Would you consider your view a judgement call, or could you kindly point me to any language in the section I may have overlooked that distinguishes between the two as far as the trigger effects of a ring of counterspells or spell turning would be concerned?

[Ravingdork]

It does say you need to target the enemy caster. It does NOT say you need to direct the spell at said target.

EDIT: Actually, it says you target him with a "counterspell." A counterspell is different than a normal spell and won't trigger the ward.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards "judgement call." I know I've heard it said that you target the spell and not the caster, but that may have been in v3.5, or perhaps I'm misremembering the context around that ruling. I just don't have the supporting evidence to give a fully confident answer yet.

[Lormyr]

It is a little sticky isn't it? I'm continuing to look for supporting evidence as well. The wording seems pretty straight to me. My concern is whether that was intended or not, or if I have missed some key phrasing somewhere. The many eyes of the community can sometimes help with such things.