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I'm placing this where I am because I primarily GM, and even though I've only dealt with this player as another player, I find myself wondering how I should react as a GM.
I am loathe to actually call someone out for stuff so publicly, but for backstory, the original post of this post should give you an idea of what's going on. The second post is by the Venture-Lieutenant that was pretty much villainized by the OP, and I don't like that one bit. But I digress: his response is very good, and I think it should serve as an example of how one responds to detractors so publicly.
Anyways, I have played with this character twice, and in both circumstances I have felt uncomfortable enough to take my leave. In one game, I left before the game really started, because my previous experience was enough that I just couldn't shake the feeling of discomfort. Each time I have seen this player play it's been "for fun" with his character, who is a were-pony cowboy character, who has his horse mash up Goodberries and feed them to you if you go down. Not as creepy.
It's the obvious-if-subtle references to bestiality that have made me uncomfortable. It took months for many in my group of friends to tell one of our other friends--a furry who kept asking us, "If you could be any animal, what would it be?" and was usually followed by some animal he'd like to "yiff" with--to stop asking us stuff and creeping us out. We love him to death, but he was still creepy enough to warrant a reaction. His were-pony character transforms and heads off to the stables to be with his mount Diane.
Now, when I say "obvious-but-subtle", the issue isn't because he comes right out and says, "I'm going to yiff." It's the inflection in his voice more than anything. It just runs a shiver up my spine because if creeps me out, and I know several other players have mentioned it before. The Venture-Lieutenant even mentions it in his response in that post. On top of that, I've never seen him play for credit. Both games he played for "fun", showing up randomly and taking a spot. I know in one game he refused to give up the spot because he just wanted to play (something I would not allow as a GM). He said he couldn't be asked to maintain a "new" character, and just brought his level 8 Druid down to level whatever for the scenario.
I'm curious as to how to handle this should it ever come up in the real world for me. I hate being put into the position of having to go over what's proper in public and what isn't, and even as a Marine it still makes me cringe. I'm also curious as to how to deal with this person in particular.
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This, for me at least, is a simple response...
A: Tell the guy his actions are creepy and inappropriate and while you know he's roleplaying a portion of his character, those actions are making everyone else at the table uncomfortable and not wanting to play with him.
B: Tell him that this is his first and final warning about this kind of behavior being unacceptable.
C: Tell him that further instances of such behavior will garner a request to not show up for game times.
D: Follow through with said retraction of gaming invitation should the behavior continue.
PFS (and gaming in general) is all about getting together and having fun. The enjoyment of the group as a whole is more important (no really it is) than the enjoyment of one person when the rest of the group is uncomfortable.
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He said he couldn't be asked to maintain a "new" character, and just brought his level 8 Druid down to level whatever for the scenario.
Buh? That's not allowed. There's nothing to even hint that it would be.
People can play for no credit, under certain conditions, which now require them to take a Chronicle anyway. But they still need to use a PFS-legal character, which a scaled-down high-level character is not. You can't play a table with half PFS characters and half non-PFS characters.
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He said he couldn't be asked to maintain a "new" character, and just brought his level 8 Druid down to level whatever for the scenario.Buh? That's not allowed. There's nothing to even hint that it would be.
People can play for no credit, under certain conditions, which now require them to take a Chronicle anyway. But they still need to use a PFS-legal character, which a scaled-down high-level character is not. You can't play a table with half PFS characters and half non-PFS characters.
The character he has to play is one that is tier appropriate... if he refuses to play a level appropriate character the GM or organizer can refuse to sit him at a table.
Characters cannot be back-leveled.
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He said he couldn't be asked to maintain a "new" character, and just brought his level 8 Druid down to level whatever for the scenario.Buh? That's not allowed. There's nothing to even hint that it would be.
People can play for no credit, under certain conditions, which now require them to take a Chronicle anyway. But they still need to use a PFS-legal character, which a scaled-down high-level character is not. You can't play a table with half PFS characters and half non-PFS characters.
I'm aware of this; I did say that I wouldn't allow it and what-not.
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I'm aware of this; I did say that I wouldn't allow it and what-not.He said he couldn't be asked to maintain a "new" character, and just brought his level 8 Druid down to level whatever for the scenario.Buh? That's not allowed. There's nothing to even hint that it would be.
People can play for no credit, under certain conditions, which now require them to take a Chronicle anyway. But they still need to use a PFS-legal character, which a scaled-down high-level character is not. You can't play a table with half PFS characters and half non-PFS characters.
My point is that nobody should be allowing it. Nobody should be entertaining the notion of allowing it. This shouldn't even be coming up. If it's being allowed, people should stop allowing it. Letting people do things that are so far outside the rules of Organized Play as to defy the label "organized" contributes to problem situations that other people have to deal with later. This is how I would deal with it--find out who is allowing him to do these things and get them to stop (by going through channels if necessary). If he starts getting denied the right to do whatever he wants and rules be damned, he will likely go away.
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This, for me at least, is a simple response...
A: Tell the guy his actions are creepy and inappropriate and while you know he's roleplaying a portion of his character, those actions are making everyone else at the table uncomfortable and not wanting to play with him.
B: Tell him that this is his first and final warning about this kind of behavior being unacceptable.
C: Tell him that further instances of such behavior will garner a request to not show up for game times.
D: Follow through with said retraction of gaming invitation should the behavior continue.
PFS (and gaming in general) is all about getting together and having fun. The enjoyment of the group as a whole is more important (no really it is) than the enjoyment of one person when the rest of the group is uncomfortable.
^^^ This.
And if he isn't playing for credit for whatever reason, and someone who wants to play for credit shows up to play. Sorry dude, you either play for credit, or give up your seat.
He doesn't get the option to deny someone else a play credit. Period.
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@Patrick: I'm not sure there was any implication that someone's already allowing it (unless I missed it). Could be he just showed up assuming he'd be able to do it.
People new to organized play sometimes miss the idea that their character needs to be 1st level and work up; RPGA's Living Realms didn't help this. This isn't the first time I've heard of or even sat down with a player who has apparently made a PC of their own to the level they want to play at.
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In fairness, playing down IS actually legal in one specific case.
I have a few Shrodengers characters. All are built at both Level 1 and level 2. I have at least 2 sets of chronicle sheets from a mix of playing l1 PC's, GM credit, pregens, etc.
Given the retraining rules this is quite legal. If I end up playing at L1 I use one set of chronicle sheets, if at l2 I use another. Note that the new chronicle sheet is correctly applied immediately to the appropriate stack. The pfs number is right, just the character details change a 'little'
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In fairness, playing down IS actually legal in one specific case.
I have a few Shrodengers characters. All are built at both Level 1 and level 2. I have at least 2 sets of chronicle sheets from a mix of playing l1 PC's, GM credit, pregens, etc.
Given the retraining rules this is quite legal. If I end up playing at L1 I use one set of chronicle sheets, if at l2 I use another. Note that the new chronicle sheet is correctly applied immediately to the appropriate stack. The pfs number is right, just the character details change a 'little'
Can you clarify what you mean here? Do you mean you have two PCs (e.g. XXXXX-5 & XXXXX-6) which have near-identical builds and names but at different levels?
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I've seen this player (and will actually be GMing him in a home campaign soon); he's an online player, he thinks it's a funny setup, and I don't have a personal horror here. It's no worse than the assorted characters that eat entrails / corpses or such; it's meant to be funny more than anything. Who knows if he's really "into that", but he certainly enjoys the character.
If he does it to a level that causes you or any players at the table discomfort, all you have to do is ask him to please tone it down in your presence and I'm sure he'll be happy to comply.
I'd personally take it with a grain of salt and give him the benefit of the doubt that he's trying to be "funny" and not "creepy". On the other hand, if he tries to play down, there's no rule for de-leveling your character, so tell him that's not legal and he will need to give up his seat. The new rules that let you check chronicles should make it easy to verify. And as others said, he can play for half-credit, but he gets credit whether he wants it or not.
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If he does it to a level that causes you or any players at the table discomfort, all you have to do is ask him to please tone it down in your presence and I'm sure he'll be happy to comply.
In the case of the tale referred to by the OP, one of the other players replied in that thread as follows:
Players at the table (and yes, I was one of them - and the loudest voice) repeatedly expressed discomfort at what you were doing - and you just turned it up.
So apparently in this case he was not happy to comply.
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I'd personally take it with a grain of salt and give him the benefit of the doubt that he's trying to be "funny" and not "creepy".
Sorry, but no. This is a behavior that should not be acceptable and I should not have to take it with a grain of salt or give him the benefit of the doubt. This is inappropriate behavior that needs to be stopped. As long as people allow him to exhibit this behavior he is going to think it's acceptable and more and more people are going to leave the gameing table.
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How do you deal with this? Ban him from your table and ask your organizer / local VO that this player should be asked to leave from organized Society play in your area. That is behavior that GMs and players do not need to put up with.
As info Joseph, he is "strictly" an online player and therefore you are the Venture Officer in question that needs to do this. Here is a page where he writes about his character:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pathfinder-society-online-collectiv e/bMd-6VT1S84
And having heard this, I'm actually bowing to the wisdom of those who have played more with him and have removed him from my campaign before we started up. I did not want him making other players feeling uncomfortable and potentially breaking up my table before it starts.
Thanks for the warning Quendishir.
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Can you clarify what you mean here? Do you mean you have two PCs (e.g. XXXXX-5 & XXXXX-6) which have near-identical builds and names but at different levels?In fairness, playing down IS actually legal in one specific case.
I have a few Shrodengers characters. All are built at both Level 1 and level 2. I have at least 2 sets of chronicle sheets from a mix of playing l1 PC's, GM credit, pregens, etc.
Given the retraining rules this is quite legal. If I end up playing at L1 I use one set of chronicle sheets, if at l2 I use another. Note that the new chronicle sheet is correctly applied immediately to the appropriate stack. The pfs number is right, just the character details change a 'little'
I have a character -13. It currently has 4 chronicles assigned to it. 4XP so its second level. That 4th chronicle was GM credit so the character has NOT been played at L2.
I have another character -14. 2 Chronicles applied, both from First Steps.
I have something like 5 characters that currently have NO chronicle sheets applied to them. They're built at L1 and L2, having spent less money than is on the chronicle sheets for -13 or -14.
When it comes time to play the L2 character I'll pick which character to assign the -13 sheets to. After that session its all locked down. But before that session my -13 may end up being any of those 5 characters.
Or. it may turn out that I'll play the L1 version instead. Same Dwarven wizard, just less cash and XP.
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Ok, but that still doesn't give me a source for a 1-ton flask.Muleback Cords/Heavyload Belt combo with 16 STR makes you can carry a ton in Light Load.
Muleback Cords only, a person with 20 STR can carry a ton in Heavy Load.
Ok, I finally read the link, and I can simply stop that shenanigans with one sentence:
PFS does not allow custom-made items.
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In fairness, playing down IS actually legal in one specific case.
I have a few Shrodengers characters. All are built at both Level 1 and level 2. I have at least 2 sets of chronicle sheets from a mix of playing l1 PC's, GM credit, pregens, etc.
I have something like 5 characters that currently have NO chronicle sheets applied to them. They're built at L1 and L2, having spent less money than is on the chronicle sheets for -13 or -14.
When it comes time to play the L2 character I'll pick which character to assign the -13 sheets to. After that session its all locked down. But before that session my -13 may end up being any of those 5 characters.
Or. it may turn out that I'll play the L1 version instead. Same Dwarven wizard, just less cash and XP.
I get what you're saying here, but there's a world of difference, between having some GM credits that you haven't yet decided how to apply, and what's been described above.
I can see the advantage in holding back applying some GM credit, to see what other players are bringing to the table. It could be that the PC classes and levels available don't make a good fit, either with each other ("Oh, no, we've no casters!") or at a specific subtier.
That's when a bit of player flexibility can make a difference.
"If everyone else is wanting to play level 4-5, then I won't insist on playing my level 6 PC; I can apply some of this unused credit to my level 3 PC, so he comes in at level 4...".
But once you've applied that credit, it stays applied.
You don't get a takeback on the credits, to use them on another PC, so in that sense, you haven't got a 'Schroedinger' PC.
Having a sheet filled out, showing how the PC would look, if it were to have the floating credit applied, isn't 'Scroedingering', it's simply being well prepared.
What you're proposing is far away from what's being decribed in the OP, where a player is simply declaring a PC to be lower level than it actually is. That's actually 'levelling a PC down', which has no precedent.