Five bucks says this thing is underpriced


Homebrew and House Rules


This is a rod that works like a stripped-down version of the staff of the master.

This rod can be used to cast spells using any metamagic feats known by the wielder without increasing the spell’s level. This consumes a number of charges equal to the number of spell levels increased by the feat. No more than one feat can be applied to a spell cast by the wielder in this way. Using the rod for this purpose does not increase the casting time of the spell. The rod holds a maximum of 10 charges. Spent charges are recovered at a rate of 1 charge per 24 hours.

Market price 15,200 gp.

Staff of the master is 30,000 gp.
Subtract 4,600 for the double magic quarterstaff,
4800 for vampiric touch,
4800 for spectral hand,
and 1600 for ray of enfeeblement.
Add 1,000 (price of a 1st-level pearl of power) for the daily recharge.

Final price 15200.

Now, adding extra abilities to staves that all draw on the same charge pool is less expensive than totally separate powers. But the metamagic power is too good, compared to a nerfed debuff, a situational spell, and a touch spell. Nobody would want to use them.

So is 15200 too cheap for the ability it gives?


I don't think so considering the slow recharge time and the number of charges required to use the feats.


I think it's a fair bit too cheap. Honestly, I don't even see this as much weaker than the original.

The +1/+1 quarterstaff is a flavor ability that has no relevance in game. The spells it grants are kind of mediocre, and also the pricing of them according to the guidelines are:
400*3*5/2=3000 for vampiric touch
300*2*3=1800 for spectral hand
200*1*1=200 for ray of enfeeblement
= 5000 total.

And the staff normally requires casting a 3rd level spell each day to recharge it one charge, so adding a 1st level pearl of power for the free recharge doesn't really make sense.

I'd probably peg this somewhere similar to a staff of the master, or slightly lower. Maybe around 25-28k or so. I feel losing access to those spells, which are pretty bad spells to begin with (apart from spectral hand, which isn't bad, just circumstantial and build dependant), isn't that much of a bigger deal than not having to spend a 3rd level slot to recharge it (note that a 3rd level pearl of power is valued at 9000 gp).


Ilja wrote:

I think it's a fair bit too cheap. Honestly, I don't even see this as much weaker than the original.

The +1/+1 quarterstaff is a flavor ability that has no relevance in game. The spells it grants are kind of mediocre, and also the pricing of them according to the guidelines are:
400*3*5/2=3000 for vampiric touch
300*2*3=1800 for spectral hand
200*1*1=200 for ray of enfeeblement
= 5000 total.

The minimum caster level for a staff spell is 8.

Quote:
And the staff normally requires casting a 3rd level spell each day to recharge it one charge, so adding a 1st level pearl of power for the free recharge doesn't really make sense.

Whoops. 23,200 then.


Ah, yeah that was a clumsy mistake of me.

Still feel 23200 is too cheap. You know, just backtracking costs the way you do now is kind of a bad way to balance it I think. A better way is to compare your item with the staff of the master, and think "at what price would most characters that want the staff of the master be satisfied with this rod?"

I think it's about the same, or just sliiightly cheaper. I've seen one staff of the master in my games, a wizard player got one. This was E7, so they where 7th level with only limited access to 4th level spell but had wealth and feats that surpassed it. He had it until his death, so probably at least 30 encounters or so. I saw him use the metamagic abilities over and over again, but don't think he ever cast any of the spells at all. And he certainly didn't wack people with it as a staff. I think he'd have traded the spells for free recharging any day. Now staff of the master might be slightly more useful to someone who focuses on melee touch attacks - but then again the metamagics are far less useful for those and it's cheaper to just buy a wand of spectral hand.


Don't forget that there are 7 other versions of the staff (1 per school) that Paizo never statted up.


Well, we can't really consider items we don't have the stats for. We'll have to assume they're about equally useful, don't we?


In fact, I'll do that now. Not that it's particularly germane to the topic at hand, but whatever.

Spoiler:
Abjuration:
Shield
Resist energy
Dispel magic

Conjuration:
Grease
Acid arrow
Aqueous orb

Divination:
Comprehend languages
See invisibility
Clairaudience/clairvoyance

Enchantment:
Charm person
Hideous laughter
Suggestion

Evocation:
Shocking grasp
Flaming sphere
Lightning bolt

Illusion:
Silent image
Invisibility
Displacement

Transmutation:
Enlarge person
Pyrotechnics
Gaseous form


Ilja wrote:
I've seen one staff of the master in my games, a wizard player got one. This was E7, so they where 7th level with only limited access to 4th level spell but had wealth and feats that surpassed it. He had it until his death, so probably at least 30 encounters or so. I saw him use the metamagic abilities over and over again, but don't think he ever cast any of the spells at all. And he certainly didn't wack people with it as a staff. I think he'd have traded the spells for free recharging any day. Now staff of the master might be slightly more useful to someone who focuses on melee touch attacks - but then again the metamagics are far less useful for those and it's cheaper to just buy a wand of spectral hand.

E7? What fresh heresy is this??!! Even numbers ONLY! So sayeth the spider.

But damn, that is like, a perfect storm for that item. I feel an echo of the wizard's glee wafting up from my keyboard.


I think that's not a fair stat-up as the necromancer staff has basically among the least useful necromancy spells at the time you get them, while your staves have some of the most useful of those schools.

More appropriate for comparision would be like:

Spoiler:

Conjuration:
Summon Monster 1
Stone Call
Pellet Blast

and Transmutation:
Magic Weapon
Levitate
Secret Page

Or if the current staff had had a setup like Interrogation, Command Undead and Ray of Exhaustion it would have been more comparable.

I don't care to make the others because it's pointless anyway: Those are items that are not statted up, and we can't base the price of an item on how it stands compared to items that don't exist.

Oh, and E7:

It has some benefits to E6 (and some drawbacks); in 3.5, you get a feat at level 6 and it's the minimum requirement for Leadership. In pathfinder, that's shifted to level 7. We play to level 7 with some limitation, rather than playing to level 6 but giving a lot of extra powers (for example many E6 rules give access to 4th level spells through feats, ours doesn't though they gain 4th level spell slots for metamagic).


You're right of course about the inapplicability of the comparison.

Since the spells seem like an afterthought, they probably shouldn't be priced like the highest-level effects of the staff. Using 200 for all three instead of 400/300/200 reduces the price discount for jettisoning them by 4000, for a price of 27,200. If recharging the rod required an expenditure of a 3rd-level slot for regaining 1 charge once per day the price would be 18,200. Free recharge results in only the tiniest of discounts (2800) for jettisoning the magic weapon and spell properties.

Math is fun!

And you were right.

Which means you owe me five bucks.

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