Why do I keep getting confused over the little details? oh well day 3 of DMing first time one foot in front of the other....
I am looking at the potion, Bulls Strength. Trying to learn how to apply it for my characters. The stat block reads:
Bull's Strength
"The subject becomes stronger. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, adding the usual benefits to melee attack rolls, melee damage rolls, and other uses of the Strength modifier."
Which stats change with addition of str? I thought it would be 2 points to hit, but I seem to be missing the "damage rolls, and other uses?"
Thanks in advance for clearing this up, my players appreciate it!
You treat the character as if they had 4 higher strength.
Hey we were all noobs at one point and this is what the boards are for. You add the strength modifier to your to hit and to your damage modifier. So + 2 more to each. Also boosts any strength related skill checks by 2 points as well
Your strength modifier modifies your "to hit" roll AND your "damage" roll. Bulls Strength increases your strength by 4, thereby increasing your strength modifier by 2.
Some of the other uses of strength would be increased carrying capacity, better rolls to break down doors or force open chests, any strength-based skill like Climb, etc.
Everything that uses strength increases. Melee attacks, unless you use Dex, Melee Damage, again unless you use Dex, Climb checks, swim checks, break object checks, strength checks in general, Intimidate checks if you have the feat Intimidating prowess, and so forth. The only thing it doesn't do is allow you to take feats that require higher strength, because it is a temporary bonus.
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Bull's strength increases your STR score by 4. That means that your STR modifier goes up by 2. Anything that keys off your STR modifier changes as a result.
For instance, your melee attack bonus increases by 2. Your melee damage increases by 2 (or by 3 with a two-handed melee weapon, or by 1 with an off-hand melee weapon). All your STR-based skills also go up by 2.
To pull straight from the online PRD to give exactly what strength can do;
You apply your character's Strength modifier to:
Melee attack rolls.
Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, including a sling. (Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only half the character's Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)
Climb and Swim checks.
Strength checks (for breaking down doors and the like).
Although they seem to omit combat manoeuvres, which, last I checked, benefit too.
Ability Score Bonuses
Some spells and abilities increase your ability scores. Ability score increases with a duration of 1 day or less give only temporary bonuses. For every two points of increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.Strength: Temporary increases to your Strength score give you a bonus on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The bonus also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and to your Combat Maneuver Defense.
Thank you all, for your patience.
So this means I have been doing combat wrong. I have been rolling d20 adding str bonus & BAB to die roll, and comparing that to monster AC. roll is higher than AC, its a hit. Then I have been rolling the damage stat block for the weapon. Such as the barbarian using a "Great Axe, 1d10"
So guess im off track? maybe BAB goes to damage not hit?
Anyway thanks for taking the time to explain..
people writing that you treat the STR as 4 higher 'in general', or that it benefits carrying capacity, STR checks (for breaking objects, etc), are not taking into account the actual rules, even if many people play in that fashion :-)
according to the rules for 'temporary' (<24 hr duration) bonuses:
Ability Score Bonuses
Some spells and abilities increase your ability scores. Ability score increases with a duration of 1 day or less give only temporary bonuses. For every two points of increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.Strength: Temporary increases to your Strength score give you a bonus on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The bonus also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and to your Combat Maneuver Defense.
I wondered whether the spells' wording was going beyond that, but it's usage of "the usual benefits" weighs against that.
Pretty much what isn't directly mentioned in the spell but which is affected, is CMB/CMD.Per the official FAQ, the bonus also applies to any Su-ability DCs. RAW, it would not for any (Ex) DCs or any other use,
and it would not officially change the score itself e.g. as far as STR drain/damage (and reaching 0 STR) is concerned,
nor could you use a temporary bonus to bypass a 'permanent' penalty which interferes with using a STR-preq Feat or Composite Bow.
Only effects which have more than 24 hour duration treat it as modifying that stat itself, and only after 24 hrs have passed.
Only such 'permanent' bonuses will affect actual STR score for purposes of drain, pre-reqs, encumbrance, STR checks,
and anything else not mentioned in the rules for temporary bonuses...
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So this means I have been doing combat wrong. I have been rolling d20 adding str bonus & BAB to die roll, and comparing that to monster AC. roll is higher than AC, its a hit. Then I have been rolling the damage stat block for the weapon. Such as the barbarian using a "Great Axe, 1d10"
So guess im off track? maybe BAB goes to damage not hit?
you roll d20 and add STR and any other bonuses to-hit. to succeed/'hit', you only have to MEET the target's AC, not exceed it.
for damage, you roll whatever damage dice and ALSO add STR and any other damage bonuses.non-"Light" MELEE or THROWN weapons wielded in 2 Hands multiply the STR bonus by 1.5 (rounding down).
BAB does not change your damage (besides allowing you to hit in the first place, and the damage bonus for Power Attack scales according to BAB)
EDIT: crossbows never apply STR and bows must be built especially to apply a certain amount of STR bonus to DMG (composite bows).
this is spelled out clearly in the definition of Strength under "Getting Started",
as well as if you look in the beginning of the Combat chapter where the basic mechanics of attack rolls and damage is discussed.
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Also, an important thing that many people miss is that a casting of Bull's Strength will not stack with a bonus to strength provided by an item (such as a belt of giant strength).
Just another tid-bit.
A potion of Bull's Strength would give you a better strength score (+4) for 3 minutes (2nd level spell, minimum caster level required to brew it is 3rd). I would personally buy a scroll or a wand (scroll is cheaper but requires a skill check if you can't cast the spell already), and a wand can be used repeatedly (50 times, at 3 minutes each time). Be aware that this is an enhancement bonus (generally magical in nature) and you can't add enhancement bonuses to each other for greater effect (enhancement bonuses don't "stack" with each other). This means you cannot use Bull's Strength with a magic belt that gives an enhancement bonus to strength.
wow I thought I was slightly confused, but now I realize I was really messed up lol
Thanks all for setting me straight, I have read the getting started and other areas so much, I think my mind is a jumble of stats and rules :)
and I think I to early made the decision "screw it we will learn as we go lets play!" :) but its working out good I think