Hey all, second attempt to post this...having trouble getting google docs to format tables right.
Anyway I wanted a tech based/steampunk class and couldn't find exactly what I was looking for so I built my own.
I admit to not being very good/detailed with number crunching and rules so those of you that excel in that area please feel free to offer advice.
Anyway let me know what you think.
He is based heavily on the summoner build and obviously tweeked for flavor....I don't think he would be too overpowered but obviously haven't play tested yet.
None? Not a single thought?
Thanks Cheapy...any thoughts/feedback?
Just a few thoughts:
- Saving throws: why high Will and no high Reflexes? building prototypes, I guess, teaches you how to save your hide when something goes wrong and tries to cut your hand or explodes. Also, the engineer is not a caster, nor a martial hero (like a paladin or a monk), thus an high will save seems inappropriate from a flavor point of view.
- Prototypes: you forgot to state how to set the DC for those. I guess, following your logic, it's 10 + INT bonus + the Schematic's level.
- Automaton: You ignored or changed some of the rules for constructs (no good saving throws, for example), but I guess you did this on purpose. Again, a good will save seems out of place (and not too useful, given the construct's immunity to mind-affecting effects). Remember, however, constructs are a strong creature type: you might want to give the automaton all bad saves to balance it.
- Techs: I'm not sure how this works, especially the part about gaining techs from other research lines. But it looks fun.
The class overall looks fun to play (as the summoner is), and I don't think it's too overpowered, especially when compared to casters and the likes. With this many options, you really should playtest a lot, I'd say two session with a lvl 1 engineer, two with a lvl 5, two with a lvl 10/11, and a couple with a level 16, 17, 18, 19 or 20th PC. Some options seem really powerful, but I failed to see anything screaming "BROKEN". The automaton can clearly become a scary force on the field, and its construct nature can get rid of many control effects.
Hope this helps!
Araknophobia -
Excellent feed back and good questions:
-I went with Will based on the focus and high need for INT. but you make a valid point for switching it over to Ref.
- Prototypes: yes I got lazy in typeing here but I intend for them to work based very similarly to spells so DC would equal 10+In+level.
-Automaton: I may have taken to liberally from the Eidelon but again I like your idea of no good saves to balance out the large bonuses from the construct type.
- Techs:So you choose a tech path a level 2 much like a ranger and follow it....however in the name of diversity I decided to allow you to pick up techs from other lines but only at a level two lower then you qualify for..so when you reach tech level 3 in one tree, you could choose a first level tech in another instead.
The idea was to keep people from cherry picking the best tech skills and since they stack..to keep people from just waiting til the end and taking the near top techs from each line.
I definately need playtests but don't often have the chance...however I am very excited about the flavor of the class!
Thanks agian for feedback.
no problem. I enjoy reading about alternate classes and archetypes (I just wrote one myself: here)... I'm glad you found my suggestion worth considering.
However, you mentioned techs stacking... does this mean that if I go full tech armor I'll get 122 extra hp? That's a bit excessive. I thought you just got +10 armor, +50 hp, SR 18, moderate fortification, d8 charged armor and a +2 to STR or DEX. And that's a lot of stuff already.
No you are correct..they don't stack.
If you go full armor that is exactly what you would have! Again I didn't want it to be overpowered but want it to be meaninful to advance all the way in one tech line.
Also nice class yourself!
thanks! and if things are as I calculated, then they're OK to me. As I said, looks like a fun character to play. Any ideas on race-tied special favored class bonuses?
I would definately think gnomes should get a bonus for the class and I would love to see some interesting Archetypes.
Also I cleaned up the Google Doc with the class and made some of the changes you mentioned as well as cleaned up some wording HEREagain let me know your thoughts!
Loving the art! (you can never go wrong with mr. Reynolds, he's both a good guy and a great artist!)
The document (although some formatting troubles persist) looks fine to me. Only thing is, what about adding to the schematics' list the equivalent of the following spells?
- crafter's fortune (changed to 1st level schematic)
- masterwork transformation (changed to 2nd level schematic)
- rapid repair (changed to 4th level schematic)
I would say any spell a GM and Player determine could have a plausable mechanical counterpart would be fair game.
One thing that my wife brought up when reviewing the class, if you dabble in any other chain you will never reach full potential in your primary chain. Is this an acceptable trade or should I add at least one extra level of tech development or maybe a feat that lets you trade a prototype slot for an extra level of tech?
Thoughts
I boosted the HD to d8 to better reflect the poor caster progression.
I made some changes to the wording of how an engineer will dabble in other tech lines and decided to make it a feat tax.
I added a list of progression feats at the end of the google doc.
*NOTE* only the second link will work now to get to the google doc.
Still looking for feedback and I will let anyone interested know once I have play tested a bit.
After several play tests the Clockwork Engineer is looking to be fairly balanced. In the right hands he can be extremely dangerous but not in a game breaking way as far as I can tell.
I have updated the Google doc with the appropriate changes and if anyone would like I will post the acutal class here in a response post.
@MightyK - Not sure but I hate trying to use the google doc as I had a really hard time with formating...but I will take a look.
As any update I've had a player running my Clockwork Engineer from level 1-5 so far and it seems to be going smoothly. He took the weapon tech line and supplimented with the Automaton line.
The Automaton is not as powerful as I feared and has been destroyed more than once.
So far it is definately a very flavorful class and the player indicates he really enjoys playing him.
New Link Attempt.