|
One of the other guys who recently joined our group is pretty new to PF (but played 3.x for a long time). Since the campaign is already in progress he made a 9th level magus. He is asking for some help on how they work. But I haven’t run a magus before and the only one I’ve seen was not done correctly. So I’ve got some questions to be certain I am understanding this correctly before I confuse him even more.
For now assume no archtype or multiclass. So he is 9th level (BaB +6), has a str of 20, and int of 16 (I think). Total attack bonus with his +2 long sword is +13 (without any other buffs).
Spell Combat – If has a hand free, he can cast a shocking grasp (or any other standard action spell) during the same full round action as he makes his full attack at a -2 to hit. So a +11/+6 plus a shocking grasp. The spell can take effect either before or after (but not during) the full attack. Spell Combat can not be used with a standard attack action or a charge attack action.
In 1) above - If he was already in melee, he would generate an AoO because he was casting in a threatened square. If he gets hit, he must make a concentration check (d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=11+damage taken or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). Or he could cast defensively to not generate an AoO. Then he would have to make a concentration check (still d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=17 or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). He could take up to a -3 on both attack rolls to get up to a +3 on the defensive concentration check.
Spellstrike – He can deliver a shocking grasp (or any other touch attack spell) with his sword. So a +13 to hit (vs standard AC not touch AC) for normal sword damage + shocking grasp damage. Crit range is 19-20 for both sword and spell. Would he still get the +3 to hit if the target is wearing metal armor? If the sword attack misses the spell is lost (no effect and no longer prepared). Or would he be able to try again to deliver the shocking grasp with his next opportunity for a spell strike?
Combine 1 and 3) above - Full attack at +11/+6 normal sword damage and an additional attack at +11 for normal sword damage and the shocking grasp.
Wand wielder – If he has the wand wielder arcane he can active a wand with his off hand while full attacking with his sword. So a +11/+6 plus the wand effect. Activating a wand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. So he doesn’t have to worry about casting defensively.
He has a wand of CL 11 fireball. So he could hit something close and cast a fireball at the archers in the back ranks.
He has a wand of true strike. So he could activate that before the full attack and get a full attack of +31/+6 to almost guarantee a hit against hard to hit targets.
How close am I?
Read this guide/thread.
One of the other guys who recently joined our group is pretty new to PF (but played 3.x for a long time). Since the campaign is already in progress he made a 9th level magus. He is asking for some help on how they work. But I haven’t run a magus before and the only one I’ve seen was not done correctly. So I’ve got some questions to be certain I am understanding this correctly before I confuse him even more.
For now assume no archtype or multiclass. So he is 9th level (BaB +6), has a str of 20, and int of 16 (I think). Total attack bonus with his +2 long sword is +13 (without any other buffs).
Spell Combat – If has a hand free, he can cast a shocking grasp (or any other standard action spell) during the same full round action as he makes his full attack at a -2 to hit. So a +11/+6 plus a shocking grasp. The spell can take effect either before or after (but not during) the full attack. Spell Combat can not be used with a standard attack action or a charge attack action.
In 1) above - If he was already in melee, he would generate an AoO because he was casting in a threatened square. If he gets hit, he must make a concentration check (d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=11+damage taken or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). Or he could cast defensively to not generate an AoO. Then he would have to make a concentration check (still d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=17 or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). He could take up to a -3 on both attack rolls to get up to a +3 on the defensive concentration check.
Spellstrike – He can deliver a shocking grasp (or any other touch attack spell) with his sword. So a +13 to hit (vs standard AC not touch AC) for normal sword damage + shocking grasp damage. Crit range is 19-20 for both sword and spell. Would he still get the +3 to hit if the target is wearing metal armor? If the sword attack misses the spell is lost (no effect and no longer prepared). Or would he be able to try again to deliver the shocking grasp with his next opportunity for a spell strike?
To first off, one of the best parts about combining spell strike and spell combat, he gets an extra attack. The 'free' touch attack a touch spell grants translates to a weapon attack using spell strike. So with spell combat he can get +11/+11/+6. THe first one to hit delivers the shocking grasp. You dont get the +3 to hit, as you arent touching, its a weapon attack, weapon attacks dont benefit from it. And if you miss, the spell isnt lost, the charge is held. His next weapon hit will deliver it though.
Combine 1 and 3) above - Full attack at +11/+6 normal sword damage and an additional attack at +11 for normal sword damage and the shocking grasp.
Wand wielder – If he has the wand wielder arcane he can active a wand with his off hand while full attacking with his sword. So a +11/+6 plus the wand effect. Activating a wand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. So he doesn’t have to worry about casting defensively.
He has a wand of CL 11 fireball. So he could hit something close and cast a fireball at the archers in the back ranks.
He has a wand of true strike. So he could activate that before the full attack and get a full attack of +31/+6 to almost guarantee a hit against hard to hit targets.
These are all correct.
THe first one to hit delivers the shocking grasp. You dont get the +3 to hit, as you arent touching, its a weapon attack, weapon attacks dont benefit from it.
Disagree. Nothing in the rules say that the effect is dependent on physically touching the target in order to gain the bonus. The only condition provided is that the target be wearing metal armor.
For example, if you were to use Reach metamagic on the spell, nothing in the spell indicates that you would lose the +3 to hit against targets with metal armor.
Same thought: If you were to alter the element of the spell to, say, fire (using any one of the abilities that various casters have to do so - not Magus, but it's not a Magus-only spell), you would still get the +3 because nothing in the spell says you would lose it.
Re: The original post, it appears to me that you have almost everything correct. However...
If has a hand free, he can cast a shocking grasp (or any other standard action spell) during the same full round action as he makes his full attack at a -2 to hit.
Emphasis mine. Spell Combat is a full-round action, but it is not a full attack action. This is important because it means that things like Haste, which specifically state they grant an extra attack when using a full attack action, do not stack with Spell Combat.
And in case there is any doubt about the accuracy of Xaratherus and Nefreet's claim.
|
|
Thanks folks. Another clarification.
You absolutely do get the +3 to hit if your opponent is wearing metal or carrying a sufficient amount of metal (such as a metal weapon).
... And if you miss, the spell isnt lost, the charge is held. His next weapon hit will deliver it though...
Does that mean each successive strike will get a +3 until one connects and delivers the shocking grasp?
So with slight adjustments:
For now assume no archtype or multiclass. So he is 9th level (BaB +6), has a str of 20, and int of 16 (I think). Total attack bonus with his +2 long sword is +13 (without any other buffs).
1) Spell Combat – If has a hand free, he can cast a shocking grasp (or any other standard action spell) at the same time as making the weapon attaks as if it was a full attack action but with a -2 to hit on each strike. So a +11/+6 plus a shocking grasp. The spell can take effect either before or after (but not during) the weapon attacks. Spell Combat can not be used with a standard attack action or a charge attack action.
2) In 1) above - If he was already in melee, he would generate an AoO because he was casting in a threatened square. If he gets hit, he must make a concentration check (d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=11+damage taken or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). Or he could cast defensively to not generate an AoO. Then he would have to make a concentration check (still d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=17 or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). He could take up to a -3 on both attack rolls to get up to a +3 on the defensive concentration check.
3) Spellstrike – He can deliver a shocking grasp (or any other touch attack spell) with his sword. So a +13 to hit (vs standard AC not touch AC) for normal sword damage + shocking grasp damage. Crit range is 19-20 for both sword and spell. He still gets the +3 to hit if the target is wearing metal armor. If the sword attack misses the spell charge is held until the next successful weapon strike.
4) Combine 1 and 3) above - Full attack at +11/+6 normal sword damage and an additional attack at +11 for normal sword damage and the shocking grasp.
5) Wand wielder – If he has the wand wielder arcane he can active a wand with his off hand while full attacking with his sword. So a +11/+6 plus the wand effect. Activating a wand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. So he doesn’t have to worry about casting defensively.
6) He has a wand of CL 11 fireball. So he could hit something close and cast a fireball at the archers in the back ranks.
7) He has a wand of true strike. So he could activate that before the full attack and get a full attack of +31/+6 to almost guarantee a hit against hard to hit targets.
Spell Combat is not a full attack action. It's a full round action.
The reason you get a free attack when combining Spell Combat and Spellstrike is because of a little known rule about touch spells. Whenever you cast a touch spell, you're given a one-time ability to deliver the spell as a free action. This makes sense because it would be ridiculous if you cast Cure Light Wounds and have to wait until your next turn to touch your friend.
Does that mean each successive strike will get a +3 until one connects and delivers the shocking grasp?
I would edit # 3 to end with: "...If the sword attack misses the spell charge is held until the next successful weapon strike, a successful touch attack, or he casts a different spell."
A Magus always has the option, if he keeps missing vs. the target's AC, to still deliver the spell via touch attack vs. touch AC. He only gets the 'free' touch attack during the round in which he cast the spell, so subsequent touch attacks would be taken as a standard action.
Also, upon casting any other spell (not just a touch spell) himself (not via a wand or magical item), any held spell charge dissipates.
|
|
Ok, so that makes the list as below:
For now assume no archtype or multiclass. So he is 9th level (BaB +6), has a str of 20, and int of 16 (I think). Total attack bonus with his +2 long sword is +13 (without any other buffs).
1) Spell Combat – If has a hand free, he can cast a shocking grasp (or any other standard action spell) at the same time as making the weapon attaks as if it was a full attack action but with a -2 to hit on each strike. So a +11/+6 plus a shocking grasp. The spell can take effect either before or after (but not during) the weapon attacks. Spell Combat can not be used with a standard attack action or a charge attack action.
2) In 1) above - If he was already in melee, he would generate an AoO because he was casting in a threatened square. If he gets hit, he must make a concentration check (d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=11+damage taken or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). Or he could cast defensively to not generate an AoO. Then he would have to make a concentration check (still d20+CL9+Int3+2) of DC=17 or lose the spell (no effect and no longer prepared). He could take up to a -3 on both attack rolls to get up to a +3 on the defensive concentration check.
3) Spellstrike – He can deliver a shocking grasp (or any other touch attack spell) with his sword. So a +13 to hit (vs standard AC not touch AC) for normal sword damage + shocking grasp damage. Crit range is 19-20 for both sword and spell. He still gets the +3 to hit if the target is wearing metal armor. If the sword attack misses the spell charge is held until the next successful weapon strike, a successful touch attack, or he casts a different spell.
4) Combine 1 and 3) above - Full attack at +11/+6 normal sword damage and an additional attack at +11 for normal sword damage and the shocking grasp.
5) Wand wielder – If he has the wand wielder arcane he can active a wand with his off hand while full attacking with his sword. So a +11/+6 plus the wand effect. Activating a wand does not provoke an attack of opportunity. So he doesn’t have to worry about casting defensively.
6) He has a wand of CL 11 fireball. So he could hit something close and cast a fireball at the archers in the back ranks.
7) He has a wand of true strike. So he could activate that before the full attack and get a full attack of +31/+6 to almost guarantee a hit against hard to hit targets.
8) Magus has wand wielder, has wand of true strike, and is using a whip. He can use the wand for a +20 to next attack then use the whip to attempt 2 disarm maneuvers at +29/+4 (CMB is +11) at foes up to 3 squares away.
Thanks folks. I think that covers all my questions so far.