So, I want to make a Kobold Dragon Disciple.
Easy, right? However, I'd prefer to qualify via the Ranger class to pick up Natural Weapon Style. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to do this. I might not need Ranger, and I'll depend on others' expertise in the matter to chime up and think outside the box for me.
One of the prerequisites is the ability to spontaneously cast Arcane spells. This makes me think of Sorcerer or Bard as entry classes.
Kobolds of Golarion gave us a nice race trait (Scaled Disciple) that allows us to qualify via spontaneously casting Divine spells. That opens up the path to DD via Oracle or Inquisitor.
The recent FAQ on SLA's qualifying you for PrC would make it possible for me to qualify with a 1st level arcane spell (are there even any traits that give 1st lvl spells instead of 0 lvl spells?) but then I wouldn't gain any benefit from the "+1 spellcasting class" class feature.
So, fellow optimizers, I present to you a challenge:
Kobold. Melee based. Preferably full BAB. Natural Weapon user. Qualify for Dragon Disciple at level 6. Able to take advantage of spellcasting progression.
Go.
Err, forgot the actual rules questions:
Kobold has a bunch of feats and racials that would seem to clash/not stack with Dragon Disciple abilities. Which ones do and which ones don't?
It would seem that Kobolds, of any race, should be the ones that take the most advantage of the PrC, and their innates should really stack.
For instance: Kobolds have a +1 Natural AC. Dragon Disciples get a +1 Natural AC. Do these stack, or do they overlap?
Do you use point buy or rolled stats?
Oh, and which dragon color do you plan to take for the kobold?
@BBT, good point. Perhaps I shouldn't be posting things at 2am without reading the wording carefully. I was thinking of foregoing the natural armor for Dragonmaw (1d4 primary bite w/1d6 energy damage 1/day), but DD picks up a bite attack anyways. Better to have stacking natural armor.
@Icyshadow, let's assume a standard 20 point buy for ease of creation, and I'm unsure of which color. I'm open to suggestions as far as trait/feat choices are concerned.
@Atarlost, you're right, but you're overlooking something major. This is not a DPR contest. This is helping me get a build for a character concept with natural weapons that actually stack, and work decently up to 16 or so for an Adventure Path. I am aware that natural weapons scale badly in comparison to their manufactured counterparts, but there are plenty of ways to stack on extra damage dice. I'm looking for those ways.
That being said, thinking about it carefully, I really don't need a full BAB martial class prior to DD. What I really want is for someone to go "Ooh, squishy caster, let's engage him in melee combat" and then receive a hearty claw-claw-bite-tail to the face for his efforts.
I suppose I can still do that with the Sorcerer class, as long as I spend my feats on martial abilities rather than magical.
As far as the stacking thing is concerned, I see lots of things that wouldn't play well together if you have a Kobold Sorceror with Draconic Bloodline who progresses to Dragon Disciple. For instance:
Kobold gets +1 NA. Draconic Bloodline gets +1 NA. Those don't stack, they overlap once the bloodline power increases it to +2 NA. Then Dragon Disciple increases any NA you have progressively. I think the bloodline power should increase the NA if you're a Kobold like the PrC does. It would only add +1 AC, wouldn't break anything.
Kobold can get a bite attack for 1d4 + 1d6 energy/day (Dragonmaw). Dragon Disciple can also get a bite attack that works very similar, but it's limited by the rounds you can have out your bloodline claws. I like the DD bite attack because it uses 1.5xSTR mod like a real dragon does. I'd love to combine these two at appropriate levels for Kobold. Like, put a disclaimer in DD that if you're a Kobold with the Dragonmaw feat, you gain the 1.5xSTR mod at 2nd level, and the 1d6 energy becomes permanent at 6th level. That way they actually get better. Still not breaking much, since Kobolds naturally get a massive hit to strength.
I think we get the point. I may try to write some homebrew rules that say if you're a Kobold Sorcerer who takes Dragon Disciple, everything will combine and stack to make you a pretty viable PC in melee or spell combat.
Natural armor stacks just fine.
Natural Armor Increase (Ex): As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor's physical aspect. At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: Dragon Disciple. These armor bonuses stack.
Kobols as DD are fine if you can get past the racial loss of Str and Con.
|
Natural armor stacks just fine.
Natural Armor Increase (Ex): As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor's physical aspect. At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: Dragon Disciple. These armor bonuses stack.Kobols as DD are fine if you can get past the racial loss of Str and Con.
It's not the DD natural armor he's worried about stacking, it's the Natural Armor bonus granted by the Draconic Bloodline which does not stack with the Kobold's base Natural Armor.
I wouldn't be making a Kobold with just a 20 point buy...
But hey, that's just me.
It's not the DD natural armor he's worried about stacking, it's the Natural Armor bonus granted by the Draconic Bloodline which does not stack with the Kobold's base Natural Armor.
Yes it does.
Standard beginning: Have you read Oterisk's guide to the DD over in the Advice section?
Now, I wouldn't be too worried about losing +1 to NA--kobolds make up for that by being small.
Natural weapons you have from your base class, via feats and such do not stack with the natural attacks a draconic sorc/DD gets, but it would be very flavorful to have your standard attacks be enhanced for a number of rounds 3 + CHA-modifier by the sorc/DD attacks.
20 point-buy, kobold, ranger (vanilla or guide archetype) 5/draconic sorc 1/DD X:
BAB +5, med armor prof (bad for spell casting later on) fav enemy (+4/+2 or guide equivalent: +4 twice a day), Aspect of the Beast as bonus feat, saves +4/+4/+3 before stats, minor magic (long strider springs to mind), fav terrain, hunter's bond (guide equivalent looks much better for your purpose);
After racials:
STR 12 (10)
CON 12 (5)
DEX 14 (2)
INT 08 (-2)
WIS 10 (0)
CHA 14 (5)
Level increases going into STR.
Alternative:
Arcane Duelist 6/DD X:
BAB +4, arcane spells, light armor prof (no ASF!, upgrade later), Arcane Strike as swift action, performances (inspire courage!), 2 bonus feats, saves +2/+5/+5 before stats, decent weapon profs (longspear, whip for reach, longsword, comp. short bow), makes use of spell progression
STR 12 (10)
CON 12 (5)
DEX 14 (2)
INT 10 (0)
WIS 08 (-2)
CHA 14 (5)
Ruyan.
|
|
It's not the DD natural armor he's worried about stacking, it's the Natural Armor bonus granted by the Draconic Bloodline which does not stack with the Kobold's base Natural Armor.Yes it does.
No, it doesn't. Natural Armor bonuses don't stack unless they say they do or they are of different types. The natural armor bonus from the drcaonic bloodline is neither an enhancement bonus, nor does it say it stacks with other bonuses as an increase like the one from Dragon Disciple does so... It doesn't.
a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any)
What do you think this line means.
No, it doesn't. Natural Armor bonuses don't stack unless they say they do or they are of different types. The natural armor bonus from the drcaonic bloodline is neither an enhancement bonus, nor does it say it stacks with other bonuses as an increase like the one from Dragon Disciple does so... It doesn't.It's not the DD natural armor he's worried about stacking, it's the Natural Armor bonus granted by the Draconic Bloodline which does not stack with the Kobold's base Natural Armor.Yes it does.
The increase to natural armor given by the bloodline and by the DD PRC are untyped bonuses. Normally untyped bonuses stack with all others.
Typed bonuses to natural armor do exist. The bonus from an Amulet of Natural Armor, on the other hand, is an enhancement bonus, so you that won't stack with anything else that grants an enhancement bonus, such as a barkskin spell. But either of these would stack with a creatures inherent armor class and with the untyped bonuses given by these classes.
Peet
|
Actually Hawktitan the natural armor bonus that they are mentioning is from the Draconic Bloodline. That won't stack with the natural armour bonus from just being a kobold, though with enough equivalent levels it will replace the racial bonus due to being higher.
It's the Draconic Resistance ability of the bloodline power.
That won't stack as it is giving you a named type of armor bonus.
Dragon Disciple will stack with any existing Natural Armour. An Amulet of Natural Armour will stack as it provided an Enhancement bonus to your natural armour bonus as does the spell Barkskin.
|
|
The increase to natural armor given by the bloodline and by the DD PRC are untyped bonuses. Normally untyped bonuses stack with all others.
Typed bonuses to natural armor do exist. The bonus from an Amulet of Natural Armor, on the other hand, is an enhancement bonus, so you that won't stack with anything else that grants an enhancement bonus, such as a barkskin spell. But either of these would stack with a creatures inherent armor class and with the untyped bonuses given by these classes.
Peet
They are not untyped they are natural armor bonuses. Natural Armor Bonuses are a type of bonus. So, the natural armor bonus granted by the kobold and the natural armor bonus granted by the sorcerer bloodline are the same type of bonus and don't stack.