Why are the evil rewarded in the afterlife?

[Mikaze]

My personal preference is for the rewards of evil to be ultimately hollow. Phyrric villainy, more or less. Take a look at Dispater for example. Ruler of one of the greatest cities in all existence. But he ain't happy.

Let me tell you about my character!:

The one time I really played an evil character was in a Conan game. Stygian guy on the outs with the clergy of Set because of family drama and he was convinced that he was doomed to an eternity of torment in the afterlife because of it. So to dodge that fate he found a demonic patron to swear himself to and guarantee a place of relative honor and comfort while sticking it to the priests of Set. Some sacrifices and work for his patron. Some sacrifices and cultists to keep as slaves in the afterlife.

If the game had continued, ideally he would have attained his goals and come to realize that the only thing that damned him was himself. He could have chosen his own path free of Set's shadow at any time, but instead he settled. So while he may have had his tiny little oasis in hell, he'll have to "live" with the knowledge that he could have had so much more. Like freedom. Instead he gets to sit in his little demi-palace going "Is this it? Is this really all there is?"

Self-inflicted hell is best hell.

[Drachasor]

Mikaze wrote:

My personal preference is for the rewards of evil to be ultimately hollow. Phyrric villainy, more or less. Take a look at Dispater for example. Ruler of one of the greatest cities in all existence. But he ain't happy.

** spoiler omitted **

Self-inflicted hell is best hell.

I think that rather cheapens evil. Sure, it can be nice to use now and then. The same with a good warrior-king who is bored out of his mind since he brought peace to the land (e.g. he isn't happy either). However, it ignores the possibility of evil winning and being happy with the results. It railroads evil and hence makes evil less tempting and in a real way less of a threat. It eliminates potential plots and enemies for no reason. It cheapens the struggle between good and evil on all levels.

[Rocket Surgeon]

Thalin wrote:

Compare this to the Norse religion, who similarly taught that the way to get to the afterlife was through killing in battle and rape. Dying of old age got you sent to hell. Doesn't seem so different, does it? If it was a given that the Norse gods exist (as it is that the Pathfinder gods exist), don't you think Thor and crew would bring back his followers in Vahalla into a ready army of superpowered beings?

I'm sorry, but I'll have to correct you here.

While it is true that the vikings raped occasionally while plundering, it wasn't part of religious doctrine, but something that happened in the heat of the plundering moment. In fact, it wasn't uncommon for vikings to bring home women that they kidnapped in their raids and marry them, making them an accepted part of their communities.

The way into Valhal (heaven) was dying bravely in battle, not killing hundreds of men and then dying peacefully in your bed. So in that way, the old scandinavian religion was about bravery, not mass murder. And anyone not dying in battle went to hel (hell), which was really a very dreary place, not one of torture and pain.

Last, but not at least, Thor isn't the big man in Valhalla, it's Odin, the all-father. So if anyone is going to make awesome warriors to fight for the glory of Asgard, it would be him. Thor is "just" the god of thunder and lightning, and thus not in the position to make warriors.

Finishing note: Odin did make awesome warriors, the brave dead, the einherjar, where immortal warriors who fought each other all day to be ready to face the jotun - the frostgiants, in the final battle. Each day they killed each other with wild abandon and in the evening they rose again to eat and drink through the night.

Sorry, but the honor of my ancestors demanded clarification ;)

[Drachasor]

Rocket Surgeon wrote:

Last, but not at least, Thor isn't the big man in Valhalla, it's Odin, the all-father. So if anyone is going to make awesome warriors to fight for the glory of Asgard, it would be him. Thor is "just" the god of thunder and lightning, and thus not in the position to make warriors.

And the god of walking into rooms and killing all the Jotuns in them.

Rocket Surgeon wrote:

Finishing note: Odin did make awesome warriors, the brave dead, the einherjar, where immortal warriors who fought each other all day to be ready to face the jotun - the frostgiants, in the final battle. Each day they killed each other with wild abandon and in the evening they rose again to eat and drink through the night.

Sorry, but the honor of my ancestors demanded clarification ;)

They did have a rather interesting pantheon too, and impressively principled compared to the Greek Gods.

I'd note that the Viking Hel is not much described by what legends remain (and I would not say Snorri is anywhere close to 100% reliable). We do know that the gods that died went there. Not a lot else. There's nothing that says it is a truly horrible place or even as bad as the Greek Underworld (which was...at best insanely boring for the majority of people).

I would point out that in a fantasy world where evil gods are real and as strong as the good gods, there is no reason why evil people would inherently suffer in their afterlife. Well, some would just because of the hierarchical structure and that evil is rather heartless. That said, a lot of gods got there the hard way and that usually requires knowing how to reward good tools and minions -- no evil alignment requires that you are incapable of this.