Do Flowing Monk and Tetori Archetypes stack?

[Sammy T]

Do the Flowing Monk and Tetori Monk (same section) stack?

I maintain that they do not as:

1) The Flowing Monk replaces the normal bonus monk feats.

2) At level 2, the Flowing Monk's Unbalancing Counter replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level.

3) The Tetori replaces all the bonus monk feats with pre-set feats.

#1 & #3 alter the same class feature (bonus monk feats).

#2 Flowing Monk's Unbalancing Counter replaces the bonus monk feat...which has already been replaced by the Tetori pre-set feat.

From the PRD::

"A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature. For example, a fighter could not be both an armor master and a brawler, since both archetypes replace the weapon training 1 class feature with something different."

Do they stack or not?

[EgyptFanatic]

I would say they don't stack. As if two archetypes modified the same thing, then they cannot be used together.

[Barry Armstrong]

You answered your own question. They don't stack. Monk bonus feats are considered a "class feature", so the rule you quoted applies.

[Kazaan]

If it were just that the one replaces the feat gained at X level, that would be fine for the same reason that a Bard archetype that replaces a specific bardic performance can still mesh with one that replaces a different specific bardic performance (but not one that changes Bardic Performance the core ability such as Archaeologist). But when both archetypes alter your Bonus Feats core ability, then they're a no-go.

[Barry Armstrong]

Actually, Kazaan, that's not true per RAW, unless I've been reading it wrong this whole time.

PRD wrote:

none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature

The class feature you reference is Bardic Performance, not the specific performance being modified. For example, Dirge of Doom is not a class feature. Dirge is a type of Bardic Performance. Therefore altering Dirge is altering Bardic Performance.

So any archetype that alters any part of any class feature cannot stack with any other archetype that even touches that same class feature.

If it's me that's reading it wrong, I've got a gunslinger to stack with ridiculous archetypes that affect grit abilities...

[Kazaan]

Barry Armstrong wrote:

Actually, Kazaan, that's not true per RAW, unless I've been reading it wrong this whole time.

You're interpreting it wrong. Class abilities sometimes have layers with Simple class abilities like Flurry of Blows, Umbrella class abilities like Bardic Performance, and Subordinate class abilities like individual bardic performances, grit deeds, bonus feats gained at a particular level, etc. You can combine one archetype that replaces two specific bardic performances and another archetype that replaces two different bardic performances because they are Subordinate class abilities. Likewise, if one archetype replaces the bonus feat you gain at lvl 1, it stacks with an archetype that replaces the bonus feat you gain at lvl 15 or even with an archetype that adds more feats to your bonus feats list or replaces the list wholesale. However, you can't stack two archetypes that both add to your bonus feats list or replace it wholesale. Tell me what gunslinger abilities were you thinking of stacking and I'll help determine if you're thinking of legal combos.

[Avianfoo]

This useful link might help with most of your archetype matching needs: Archetype Combos

[Kazaan]

Avianfoo wrote:

This useful link might help with most of your archetype matching needs: Archetype Combos

I like that listing, though I'd like it a lot more if it included entire combos up to 3, 4, etc. archetypes. We have certain threads on these forums that cover that, but it's usually class-by-class so you have to go hunting for it.