Drastically Changing Magic For My Campaign. Tips?

[Vamptastic]

So, I've been working on a sort of Western/Victorian game setting, and overall, I really like it. Well that's obvious, since I'm the one working on it, right?

Anyway, I really want to retool magic. I want it to be more powerful, but far less "there". I hate what a friend refers to as "Point click magic", the Wizard who can just blast a fireball or teleport around the world or do all of that, it's just never gelled with me. Plus, I want 'secret societies' to be big in this world, collections of men and women gathering in the dead of night, sipping brandy in a hidden den while comparing rituals and bringing each other news from the spirit world/real of magic/Demon Dimension/whatever.

So to that end, I essentially want to take any spell that's "big" and say that essentially, it requires a huge ritual to cast. Lots of people standing over a pentagram or something drawn on the floor, and takes a lot out of the 'caster'. I'm aware this is probably going to gut a few of the magic classes, so I'm thinking about possibly replacing them. Instead of a 'Wizard' or a 'Sorcerer', have a 'Magician' or a 'Medium', I'm not entirely sure yet.

Finally, monsters will probably have to be modified with all this in mind, I'm aware. Or, they won't be modified, and will just be extremely dangerous and will be 'Big Deals' in a campaign.

Anyway, thoughts? Advice on how to start all of this? David Bowie lyrics?

Random notes about the world:

All Chimpanzees are Chaotic Evil.

The Ride Skill will possibly have two sub-versions, 'Regular' and 'Side Saddle'.

Derringers and firearms in general will be fashionable.

'European' Dwarves pride themselves on their beards, but Dwarves from 'Overseas'(American Dwarves) are all about mustaches.

There aren't as many Orcs anymore, and many have their own sections of a city. They are usually drunk and bitter, and are mostly more blue collar.

I want to make psychic powers more common. Mainly to give magic and non-Martial lovers a viable option for combat and adventuring.

More to come!

[Da'ath]

Vamptastic wrote:

So to that end, I essentially want to take any spell that's "big" and say that essentially, it requires a huge ritual to cast. Lots of people standing over a pentagram or something drawn on the floor, and takes a lot out of the 'caster'. I'm aware this is probably going to gut a few of the magic classes, so I'm thinking about possibly replacing them. Instead of a 'Wizard' or a 'Sorcerer', have a 'Magician' or a 'Medium', I'm not entirely sure yet.

Best system I have found to accomplish this is to take the sorcery system from Mongoose's d20 Conan books and adapt it - keep mechanics you want, toss the rest. It includes practical magic, ritual magic, sacrifice, and so on.

I used to run a "Gothic Earth" style campaign using the Conan d20 magic rules (and the Scholar class) with the Masque of the Red Death campaign setting material.

Edit: Here is a link to a "fixed" version of the Scholar class from Conan d20, by a guy using the handle Thulsa. Inside is the "Savant" class, some new and revised feats, and some new and revised spells. It should give you an idea of the system and if it's something yuou're interested in persuing.

Savant Class for Conan d20

[BillyGoat]

Step 1: Strip out the spells you consider too powerful.

Step 2: Determine if this obsoletes a class.

Step 3: Re-flavor the arcane casters as psychics, except witches. Witches remain as the "go-to" spell-slinger. This fits better with Victorian era "on the fly" magic.
Step 3a: Rename Knowledge(Arcane) to Knowledge(Occult). Roll Aberrations and Knowledge(Planes) into Knowledge(Occult). This again increases the Victorian verisimilitude, and unites Arcane and Psychic "magic" more effectively.

Step 4: Create a feat: "Ritual Magic". Anyone can take it with X ranks in Spellcraft or Knowledge(Occult), they don't have to already be a psychic or witch.

Step 5: Use the advice laid out in the old 3.5srd/Unearthed Arcana to re-develop those powerful spells as rituals.

EDIT
I'd avoid splitting Ride into sub-skills. People are hurting enough for skill points already and it does nothing to meaningfully increase verisimilitude. I know, it's realistic, but how many PCs are going to even worry about side-saddle?

[Vamptastic]

The Conan books, you say? I may look into them, thanks for the suggestion.

[Da'ath]

Posting again so you'll notice the edit in my previous post. Looks like you got to the post before my edit, so I highly recommend you take a peak at the linked Savant. =)

[Vamptastic]

Billy Goat, that's terrific advice, thank you. This is gonna involve a lot of reading, it looks like.

[BillyGoat]

Vamptastic wrote:

Billy Goat, that's terrific advice, thank you. This is gonna involve a lot of reading, it looks like.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right. And for customizing RPGs, that generally means a lot of reading.

Since the gap between martials and casters was so large, what you're doing is likely to close it, rather than actually making casters a "sub-optimal" choice.

But, it does further devalue prestige classes that blend one caster class with something else (Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster), so keep an eye on that, if you cared about the prestige class effects. Although, for something like this setting, I'd be more interested in creating setting-specific prestige classes. And leveraging the ones that are already setting-appropriate (assassin, duelist, both come to mind).

[Kazaan]

If you want it more "ritualistic", you can give it some "charge-up" time. For example, the standard Fireball spell is just a standard action to conjure up the spell, launch the fireball, *fwoom*, wham bam thank-you ma'am. If you want it more "ritualized", then make it a 2-4 round casting time and then, at the end, you can launch multiple fireballs; the longer you spent on the ritual, the more you get to throw. Limitations can involve needing to stay in one place or, possibly, you can take a 5' step but move no more than 5' away from the spot you began the ritual in. "Quicken magic" can halve the casting time so you can effect a 2 round ritual in only 1 round of casting or a 4 round ritual in only 2 rounds. That's how I'd do it.

[mplindustries]

Vamptastic wrote:

Anyway, thoughts? Advice on how to start all of this?

Run a different game. Seriously, there are games for this than handle Victorian magical steampunk with secret occult societies far, far better.

I personally love Savage Worlds for it. I've done it with my own setting, but you can also easily use a modified Rippers, Space: 1889, or Deadlands.

There's also Airship Pirates, the Abney Park RPG, or dozens of others out there.

The fact is, if you want to change magic so drastically (and I would want to, as well), I just think you'll be changing so much of Pathfinder that you'll be playing a different game, at which point, you might as well be literally playing a different game better suited for it.

[Vamptastic]

Yeah, I'm sure other systems could do the trick, but Pathfinder is what I got, so Pathfinder is what I'm using. This is why I'm here in the Homebrew section figuring out how to retool it.

That being said, thanks for the list of stuff to check out when I actually have money, in the distant future.

[Da'ath]

Vamptastic wrote:

That being said, thanks for the list of stuff to check out when I actually have money, in the distant future.

Off-topic advice, but I think helpful overall, as follows:

Check the ads at local colleges, universities, and so on regularly. Often, students have to decide between their hobby and eating - eating always wins. You can buy up collections for relatively cheap (which is how I ended up with full sets of the Star Wars Saga Edition, Conan d20, and other RPG series).