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So, my level 10 PFS Sorcerer hit +19 on UMD, and I'm realizing he stands a pretty good chance of using most 4th level and lower scrolls that aren't on his class list. He has a 14 Wis and 14 Int, because I didn't know how to make an "optimized" character when I created him, and he has a 21 CHA (thanks to a +4 Headband).
If I'm interpreting the UMD rules correctly, for Cleric, Druid, Magus (are there any Magus-only spells?), and Witch spells 4th level and lower, he needs to make a DC20+Caster Level UMD check. Meaning for a level 1 spell, he needs to roll a 2. For a level 2, he needs a 4. Level 3 he needs a 6, and level 4 he needs an 8. For Ranger, Bard, and Paladin, the DCs are slightly higher.
So, my question is, what are the best scrolls that aren't on the Sorcerer list that he should carry? He already has the following:
Breath of Life (In a spring-loaded wrist sheath. He needs a DC30 UMD check to emulate a 15 Wis, then a DC29 to cast it, or to roll an 11 and a 10 respectively. Breath of Life is on the Oracle list, but for PFS I have to assume a Cleric made it, right? Therefore base it off Wisdom? If I can base it of Cha, I can skip the roll to emulate Wis. Remember, this is for PFS.)
Silence
Bless Weapon
Obvious additions would be things like Remove Blindness, Remove Paralysis, Remove Fear, the Cure spells. Maybe Shield Other, since he has 78 hp and usually casts False Life for 11-20 more on top of that. It would last 3 hours off a scroll, which will cover a lot of PFS scenarios.
Dropping 25, 150, or 375 gold on a scroll is something he does regularly at this level anyway, and 750 isn't out of the question either. 1,125 wouldn't be if I can use my Cha to satisfy the stat requirement instead of Wis or Int.
He's pretty versatile for a Sorcerer, and I'm looking to make him moreso. He carries a number of Sorcerer scrolls now, either to use through his Mnemonic Vestment, or just to use and replace. As a recent example, he picked up scrolls of Teleport, Break Enchantment, and Wall of Force (his 5th level spell known is Telekinesis), because you don't always need those spells, but when you do, you'd gladly give 1,125gp to have them.
So help me out. What am I not thinking of?
In a related question, what's the most efficient way to store/retrieve scrolls? Right now he's going with lots of scroll cases and a Handy Haversack.
Apologies for not directly answering your question but just realize you can't take 10 with the UMD skill. If you need a 10 and a subsequent 11 to get your rolls you will fail about 75% of the time. You may want to lower your requirements for which level of spells you go after especially since you already have two 14 ability scores and wouldn't need to UMD those which puts your chance to fail at only 50%, about half the previous number statistically speaking.
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A fair point. I do understand the math and the take 10 rules where UMD is concerned. Breath of Life is an exception, because, well, it's Breath of Life. He bought the scroll anyway to hand off to a Cleric or Oracle to use on him if needed. In the event there is no Cleric or Oracle, however, a 25% chance of saving a party member is better than no chance. I'd only pick up other 5th level scrolls if I'm somehow misinterpreting things, and he can use Charisma as the casting stat for spells that are on the Cleric/Oracle list. My reading of it is that I'd have to use Wisdom, at least for PFS, but then, an Oracle doesn't have to use Wisdom to cast a scroll made by a Cleric, so I start to wonder if I'm missing something. I think, though, since the minimum caster level would be as a Cleric, that's what I'd have to try to emulate, right?
for 2 PP you can buy a scroll with multiple spells as long as they are the same spell.
Lessor restoration is awesome for that.
Bestow curse
daylight
stone shape
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for 2 PP you can buy a scroll with multiple spells as long as they are the same spell.
Lessor restoration is awesome for that.
Bestow curse
daylight
stone shape
All good suggestions. Lesser Restoration is one I forgot about, and it's a good option at 5 castings for 2pp.
Daylight is on the Sorcerer list already. I have an Oil of it, because a scroll never seemed practical. It just always seemed to me that if you need to cast Daylight, you probably can't see to read the scroll. Now, a riffle scroll of Daylight is something I've thought about picking up, but I forget how the debate on that ended.
EDIT - Looks like Bestow Curse is on the Sorcerer list as well at 4th level. It's a 3rd level cleric spell, though. Since all scrolls in PFS are both arcane and divine, I would buy it at the cleric level, and it would be CL5? I think that's right. Scroll cost is something that always trips me up. For something I can use my Mnemonic Vestment with, and potentially cast at my full CL and DC without burning the scroll, it would definitely be worth a 375gp investment. Same goes for Stone Shape. Both are scrolls I don't already have, though, so worth keeping on the list.
Once I get my INT increase at level 8, my ninja is maxing out UMD and carrying scrolls of glibness. You've got the Charisma to back it up.
Quick checks worth making (I will ...), the spell list of the Bard and Paladin. They are both Charisma casters and they have spells that may end up with "lower" prices also ex.: Lesser Restoration is a 1st level for a paladin and Break Enchantment from the Bard list can cover alot for a 4th level.
I know these classes might not be "scribe scrollers" often but they could join a wizard to do it (That what I understand of the process).
You purchase spells at the lowest possible caster level. Some spells paladins get at level 4 some classes do not get until 4 as well.
So you can buy those too. Honeyed tongue paladin spell
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You purchase spells at the lowest possible caster level. Some spells paladins get at level 4 some classes do not get until 4 as well.
So you can buy those too. Honeyed tongue paladin spell
Honeyed Tongue is a good one.
It would be a 1st level scroll with caster level 1, I believe, since it appears on the Paladin, Bard, and Inquisitor lists, but is a 1st level Paladin spell. True, the Paladin doesn't get it until 4th level, but a Paladin only has a CL1 at 4th level.
That weakens it a little, since 10 minutes isn't enough time to use Diplomacy to gather information, but it would still be helpful when you're trying to change someone's attitude, which only takes 1 min. Probably worth the 25gp. I'll add it to the list!
Thanks everyone so far. I'm coming up with quite the shopping list of scrolls!
Owl's Wisdom and/or Fox's Cunning would substantially improve your chances of getting the 3rd and 4th level spells right.
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Owl's Wisdom and/or Fox's Cunning would substantially improve your chances of getting the 3rd and 4th level spells right.
Hmm... this one I'm not sure I understand. I have the Int and Wis required for 3rd and 4th level scrolls. The only thing that would improve my chances is boosting UMD, so Eagle's Splendor would seem to be the one to use. I probably should have it as a spell known by now, but I don't. Even if I did, it's minutes/level, so I'd have to know I was going into a situation I'd need it.
Boosting UMD farther isn't a bad idea, though. I don't actually have a head slot item. I was considering something else for that slot, but maybe a Circlet of Persuasion is the way to go. I do already have a +1 competence bonus to UMD from an Ioun Stone, which I'd lose. The Circlet would affect many other skills, too, so it might be worth it.
Breath of Life is obviously very useful in those desperate situations. But remember that you need to use it within one round of a character's death for it to be able to bring them back.
So in order to be able to do this effectively you need to either be:
A: standing next to the fallen character when he goes down, or
B: already have the scroll in your hand, or
C: have a way to get an extra move action
Because to draw the scroll, move next to the character, and then read it, that's two move actions and a standard action.
Hey, if you can work it out it's great to be able to pull it off, but for this reason a scroll is difficult, especially if you have to make a UMD check.
A wand of breath of life will cost 33,750 gp, but the DC to use the wand is only 20 instead of 20+caster level. This would be a great one to get in a regular campaign where the party can all chip in, but in PFS it has to come out of one player's stash.
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Breath of Life is obviously very useful in those desperate situations. But remember that you need to use it within one round of a character's death for it to be able to bring them back.
So in order to be able to do this effectively you need to either be:
A: standing next to the fallen character when he goes down, or
B: already have the scroll in your hand, or
C: have a way to get an extra move action
Because to draw the scroll, move next to the character, and then read it, that's two move actions and a standard action.
Hey, if you can work it out it's great to be able to pull it off, but for this reason a scroll is difficult, especially if you have to make a UMD check.
A wand of breath of life will cost 33,750 gp, but the DC to use the wand is only 20 instead of 20+caster level. This would be a great one to get in a regular campaign where the party can all chip in, but in PFS it has to come out of one player's stash.
Spring-loaded wrist sheath. Whether or not a scroll can be placed in a spring-loaded wrist sheath is a highly debated topic on the boards (and not something I want to debate here). It basically comes down to a GM's call. If the GM believes that it can be, then it turns it into a swift action to get the scroll into your hand, a move action to get to the person, and a standard to cast it. The character lives (maybe). Everyone is happy.
If the GM doesn't believe that, the options you list are correct, and it's probably a wasted scroll. Once again, because it's Breath of Life, and because it could save a character (possibly my own!), I was willing to spend the 1,125gp (plus 5gp for the spring-loaded wrist sheath), because any chance to save a character is better than no chance. So far the GMs I've played with have allowed it, but I usually ask before the game if I remember to, so there are no surprises when a character's life is actually on the line.
A limited charge wand of Breath of Life would be a very generous item for John or Mark to include on a chronicle sheet for PFS. I'm sure lots of players would be very grateful for that. :) I am also as part of this going back through my chronicles to see what partial wands are on there, as sometimes there are good 2nd level wands with less than 10 charges. My ninja made good use of a 6 charge wand of False Life, and there's an 8 charge one on another of her chronicles. I will likely pick up full wands of very useful 1st level spells, especially if I find myself buying a new scroll of it every session.
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As to eagle's splendor.. don't you have a +CHA item? They are both enhancement bonuses, so I'd save up for the +4 CHA item myself as your CHA is lower than one might expect.
I do. I just spaced on that for a second. And, I actually have the +4 headband already, sadly. I started with a 16 CHA and some odd numbers in other stats. As I said, really didn't understand optimization, or really Pathfinder, when I started the character. Most of what I cast with him doesn't have a save, anyway, so I only bothered to boost his Cha as it became important for bonus spells. His 4th level bonus went to round out his Int, I believe, to pick up some extra skill points. 8th level went into Cha, which with the +4 headband put me at 21.
etc.PS: Some you might not consider:
1. Entangle. The DC is LOW, which is great! Use it to create hampered terrain so no one can take 5' steps or charge if not flying.
2. Status. Know where the invisible/hiding party rogue is at all times so you don't fireball them and also so when they scout ahead you know when they need the party to come running.
3. Expeditious excavation.. if a fellow PC can make a DC 11 ref save then you can move them 5' which might take them outside of full attack range of a nasty monster.
4. Pyrotechnics. Put out non-magical fires.
All good suggestions. I hadn't fully read Expeditious Excavation before. That's actually really good, and with several uses, which I like.
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Well, the wish list of scrolls came out to 148 different spells, for a total cost of just under 18,000gp. That includes scrolls of almost every 1st level Sorcerer spell that I don't already have on my known spells list. So, without those, it cuts it down to 59 spells. Remove the rest of the Sorcerer spells, and it's 34 spells not on his class list. Everything from Create Water (5 copies) to King's Castle from the Paladin list.
Add to that a Ring of Spell Knowledge Level 2 at 6,000gp, and possibly wanting to buy a Page of Spell Knowledge for Liberating Command for 1,000gp, and I'll have plenty to spend my gold on for a while.
Now to prioritize and see what I can cut.
Thanks again, everyone, for the suggestions.
Owl's Wisdom and/or Fox's Cunning would substantially improve your chances of getting the 3rd and 4th level spells right.Hmm... this one I'm not sure I understand. I have the Int and Wis required for 3rd and 4th level scrolls.
Uh, yeah. Make that 5th and 6th level spells. I'm getting old.
Owl's Wisdom and/or Fox's Cunning would substantially improve your chances of getting the 3rd and 4th level spells right.Hmm... this one I'm not sure I understand. I have the Int and Wis required for 3rd and 4th level scrolls. The only thing that would improve my chances is boosting UMD, so Eagle's Splendor would seem to be the one to use. I probably should have it as a spell known by now, but I don't. Even if I did, it's minutes/level, so I'd have to know I was going into a situation I'd need it.
Boosting UMD farther isn't a bad idea, though. I don't actually have a head slot item. I was considering something else for that slot, but maybe a Circlet of Persuasion is the way to go. I do already have a +1 competence bonus to UMD from an Ioun Stone, which I'd lose. The Circlet would affect many other skills, too, so it might be worth it.
Ehh, you have a headband that gives CHA as an enhancement bonus. The spells enhancement bonus does nto stack with that. So I would avoid eagle splendor.