Ok.
If you have (9ac) Dragonhide Full Plate +2 enchantment to AC = +11 AC total bonus.
Without the Wild enchantment, when you use Wildshape... You loose all of this.
With Wild enchantment, when you use Wildshape, then you would gain the +11 AC from the armor and enchantment, to your new form.
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Now the Question:
Does the Wild enchantment, also make you suffer the "Maximum Dex Bonus" & "Armor Check Penalty", of the Armor that you are wearing while wildshape ??
Does Wild, give you the benifits and non of the penalitys.
Or Does Wild give both ??
I believe you get all the bonuses and none of the penalties. (RAW: "The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape," nothing about preserving penalties.)
Given how expensive an ability wild is, I don't think that's unreasonable. After all, I could simply get bracers of armor sized to fit a bear....
No penalties. That's why its a whopping +3
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1. -James Jacobs
Ok, cool, and thanks for the Linky.
So, a druid who takes a level dip in monk can get
+ 9 AC from wild dragon hide armor + any enchanment bonus the armor might have.
+ Dex
+ 1 AC Dodge Feat
+ Wis monk bonus, since the druid has armor melded into his wildshape form, and not consider to be wearing armor.
And a caster druid could then choose small or diminitive animal from for bonus to Dex and AC, for a more defensive caster.
+ AC from Natural Form
+ Magic item based on Shield of Faith
+ Magic item based on Barkskin
+ Magic item based on Dexterity.
Yes, the kung fu panda build can be quite effective defensively. Of course, you're losing a level of spellcasting to do it.
Having said that, James Jacobs also said in the same thread that non-proficiency penalties should still apply ("for game balance reasons") even if you are wildshaped. I could easily see a game master deciding that the Wisdom bonus does not apply for the same (game balance) reason. I don't think there's official word on this point.
Yes, the kung fu panda build can be quite effective defensively. Of course, you're losing a level of spellcasting to do it.
Having said that, James Jacobs also said in the same thread that non-proficiency penalties should still apply ("for game balance reasons") even if you are wildshaped. I could easily see a game master deciding that the Wisdom bonus does not apply for the same (game balance) reason. I don't think there's official word on this point.
What non-proficiency penalties is this referring to ?
Not having the "Armor proficiency, Heavy", which druid do not start out with.
Which could then be taken as a Feat, to get rid of the penalty ??
What non-proficiency penalties is this referring to ?
Not having the "Armor proficiency, Heavy", which druid do not start out with.
Yes. If you're wearing dragonhide full plate, it still counts as heavy armor for proficiency purposes, wild or not.
Which could then be taken as a Feat, to get rid of the penalty ??
... but you can't just skip the feat on the grounds that you're going to be wildshaped 24/7 anyway. Or so sayeth JJ.
Ok now the Cheeeeeeesy Question :D which as DM, i would not allow, but just asking.
Would you then allow the druid to wear Animal Barding on top of all this ?
Ok now the Cheeeeeeesy Question :D which as DM, i would not allow, but just asking.
Would you then allow the druid to wear Animal Barding on top of all this ?
Sure. No physical reason to disallow it, and since similar bonuses don't stack, it gives you no benefits but substantial penalties. Like wearing Bracers of Armor along with your Plate Mail, and then burning charges of a Wand of Mage Armor to prove how awesome you are.
I had a Druid player with +X wild dragonhide full platemail. He wasn't proficient, but the most official-looking answer I could find seemed to say the player wouldn't get any penalties while Wild Shaped.
The player would cast barkskin every day, and even without totally optimizing his AC with the maximum possible Dexterity, Dodge feat and whatnot, I found it to be too effective. If there is a standing recommendation that non-proficiency should apply for balance reasons, I'd second that notion.
Sure. No physical reason to disallow it, and since similar bonuses don't stack, it gives you no benefits but substantial penalties. Like wearing Bracers of Armor along with your Plate Mail, and then burning charges of a Wand of Mage Armor to prove how awesome you are.Ok now the Cheeeeeeesy Question :D which as DM, i would not allow, but just asking.
Would you then allow the druid to wear Animal Barding on top of all this ?
Just to play devil's advocate.
Do you know of any text that would prevent a player from wearing, say, +5 wild full platemail, using Wild Shape, then wearing +1 padded barding with as many new armor enchantments as the player could want, thereby avoiding the normal exponential growth of costs?
I know that there's a specific rule preventing the use of bracers of armor with other armors, but I'm not sure about a general rule.
Edit: It turns out that you could get a wild tower shield ... ! But Druids must only use shields crafted from wood. Oddly enough, they can't even use dragonhide shields. Still, it may be preventing something distasteful, so maybe it doesn't need much fixing.
And I must correct myself again. Tower shields are wooden shields.
This disappoints me :( I thought my character was going to get a mithril tower shield. No such luck.
There is a rule, somewhere, that does not let armor bonus stack.
So like someone else pointed out, the druid would only benefit from only the Highest Armor on the character. The Dragon hide would not stack with barding.
..........................
I might ask a lot of question about the rules, but on some stuff, i prefer a few house rules
The way i House ruled, armor for druid:
- They can were any non-metal armor they want.
- They have to take Heavy Armor Proficiency if they were Heavy amour or they suffer the penalizes.
- They get the armor bonus + any enchanted bonus from armor, while in animal form, without being required to take the (+3) wild enchantment, as there is no wild enchantment in MY Home game's.
- They suffer, Maximum Dex Bonus, Armor check penalties, and Speed decreases from the armor at all times, even when in Wildshaped form. The weight from the armor still counts toward encumbrance.
- Fly is a Dex based check ability, and can suffer from wearing armor. You might be better off, without or wearing light armor, if you like bird or flight from, alot.
- If you have very High Dex, or you gain Very High Dex from the Wildshaped form, you might be better off in Light Armor, which would let you gain full use of your Dex bonus, as you do suffer Maximum Dex Bonus penalties from wearing armor.
Anyway, this always seamed the simple, fastest, fairest way to do it. After all, high level druid will take the +3 "Wild" enchantment as soon as possible, if allowed, so why not let the lower level gain the benefit to armor, when they need it the most. As long as your, enforcing the negative of wearing armor, i alway though it balanced out.
Movement 20 or less = Medium or Heavy armor = -5 to speed
Movement 30 or more = Medium or Heavy armor = =10 to speed
Armor Check Penalty = Apply to all Dexterity and Strength based skill checks.
Shields = Add to the Armor check penalty
Sleeping in Armor = For Medium or Heavy armor = would now apply.
Weight = would now apply toward encumbrance.
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All of this apply to a druid in human form.
In my "Homebrew game", this now also apply to druid in Wildshape form.
My Justification: I just treat Armor as armor, regardless of form. Both the benefits and the penalties. To me, that is the simplest answer.
when wearing armor of any kind - regardless of penalties - you do not gain the Wis bonus to AC. Same goes for shields or a ring of force shield.
Your players don't sleep in wild shape? Once you hit 8th level, that's eight hours each use. You can, and usually should, be wild shaped all day long.
That's good, and that's what I want to believe. On what page is that rule?
Oh! Probably magical item slotting fixes it. I think I'm satisfied.
The ruling is not just Bracers of Armor, it's quite simple and straight forward. Armor granting devices DO NOT STACK. Whichever gives the greater armor bonus totally shuts down the lesser(s). So you can't wear platmail +5 and a +1 t-shirt of heavy fortification and expect both to function.
I admit that I'm not familiar with that specific rule. Do you have chapter/verse?
I also admit to suspicion. Can I turn off someone's T-shirt of heavy fortification by casting an armor-granting spell on him?
The ruling is not just Bracers of Armor, it's quite simple and straight forward. Armor granting devices DO NOT STACK. Whichever gives the greater armor bonus totally shuts down the lesser(s). So you can't wear platmail +5 and a +1 t-shirt of heavy fortification and expect both to function.
I admit that I'm not familiar with that specific rule. Do you have chapter/verse?
I also admit to suspicion. Can I turn off someone's T-shirt of heavy fortification by casting an armor-granting spell on him?
That's only true in the case of bracers, otherwise they overlap and you would have the +5 heavy fortification. :-)
I found the answer to my question.
A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear
consisting of one item from each of the following groups,
keyed to which slot on the body the item is worn. . . .
Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of
the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond
those in the slots listed above have no effect.
Bracers of armor get a specific rule about overlapping because they actually don't use the same magic item slot. Body slots already prevent a druid from donning wild armor, wild shaping, and donning a second set to benefit from different enchantments.
The ruling is not just Bracers of Armor, it's quite simple and straight forward. Armor granting devices DO NOT STACK. Whichever gives the greater armor bonus totally shuts down the lesser(s). So you can't wear platmail +5 and a +1 t-shirt of heavy fortification and expect both to function.
I admit that I'm not familiar with that specific rule. Do you have chapter/verse?
I also admit to suspicion. Can I turn off someone's T-shirt of heavy fortification by casting an armor-granting spell on him?
"If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities."
I see two ways to interpret which armor would have precedence.
If a GM ruled similarly to bracers of armor, then you could indeed shut down the armor of an opponent by casting mage armor on it if said armor had a +3 bonus or less.
The other best-guess is my quote in the above post, where additional items in those slots have no effect. One could interpret that to say that a mage armor cast on you will not suppress your armor, because your armor was worn first and the mage armor came second (effectively locked out). On the other hand, if you had mage armor cast on you first, that would prevent you from benefiting from donning armor later.