Hi all,
Grapple rules say:
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices). If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
My doubt: when you start a grapple, can you perform as well one of the actions? or you can do that ONLY after starting a grapple, when in your next turn you maintain the hold? What happens if your grappling enemy turns the grapple? Would that mean that in theory, you and him can spend some rounds just fighting to find out who's the grappler, without dealing any damage at all?
Also: grab says: "A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack"
I understand that if a monster with grab and constrict hits with its attack, say a claw, it deals claw damage, try to establish a hold for free, and if successful, deals constrict damage. Is that correct?
Thank you!
You quoted the answer yourself...
Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).Yes, I get that when you maintain a grapple using a standard action, you can perform one of the actions. My doubt is in the starting of a grapple, in which you use a standard action but there's no reference about performing any action at all. In that case, do you get any action?
Also the part of grab you quoted is for the "hold" option of grab...the one that is at a -20 and doesn't give the creature the grapple condition
Also the part of grab you quoted is for the "hold" option of grab...the one that is at a -20 and doesn't give the creature the grapple condition
?
Sorry, i don't understand that. as far as I know, a monster with grab has to make grapple checks to maintain the grapple.
Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).
So the monster can conduct the grapple without gaining the grapple condition but still has to make grapple checks to maintain the grapple (and deal damage for the attack plus constrict damage if available)
You have two options with grab...
1.Grapple normally...where you and the enemy gain the grappled condition.
2."Hold" the enemy where you use only the limb that initiated the grapple...you do not gain the grappled condition...and the grapple and any maintaining is made made at a -20
I never said you did not have to maintain
Anything past the part of grab that mentions "if it chooses to do the latter..." Is meant to apply to the "latter" option...or "hold"
Basically you only get your auto claw/bite/whatever damage if you use the hold option...unless you actually choose the damage option when you maintain
For a better explanation...since I really am bad at explaining what's in my head...I suggest asking Bruno...search any other thread with grapple and he's in there