Short answer: Your GM is always right.
Long answer: He may be convinced by evidence presented in a fair and reasonable way.
The thread makes an interesting argument. So long as you follow all the standard rules for running (full round action, straight line only, penalty to AC, etc), then it should be fine as well as the rules for avoiding AOOs and penalties for failing the check.
As the second link states, the SRD is very clear: "If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone."
If you fail the check to avoid an AOO AND the AOO hits you AND you fail the second check, you fall down. If you fail to avoid the AOO and it hits but you succeed on the second check, you do not fall down and you can keep moving. This is how I interpret it.
Short answer: Your GM is always right.
YES SIR! ;-)
Long answer: (...) "If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone."
(...) This is how I interpret it.
No, this is only for using acrobatic for balancing. I think this make sense, and how I interpret the thread.
First, you can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. A successful check allows you to move at half speed across such surfaces—only one check is needed per round. Use the following table to determine the base DC, which is then modified by the Acrobatics skill modifiers noted below. While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any). If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.
Perhaps this could be an FAQ candidate.
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Run
You can run as a full-round action. If you do, you do not also get a 5-foot step. When you run, you can move up to four times your speed in a straight line (or three times your speed if you're in heavy armor). You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run feat.
I have trouble with the image of people using acrobatic to avoid an attack of opportunity while running in a straight line and losing the dexterity bonus to AC.
You can't run on narrow surfaces as run say: "You can't run across difficult terrain or if you can't see where you're going." and generally narrow or uneven surface that require the use of Acrobatics are difficult terrain.
Last but not least, Acrobatics say: "In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10." so you already have a way to move at full speed (and x2 your full speed using 2 actions) while using Acrobatics, but you would suffer from a DC increase. Saying "I run" seem to be simply an attempt to avoid the DC increase.
You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10." so you already have a way to move at full speed (and x2 your full speed using 2 actions) while using Acrobatics, but you would suffer from a DC increase. Saying "I run" seem to be simply an attempt to avoid the DC increase.
But you must make a fullround movement and not a movement on full speed and an attack. The speed on this run is still halfed and you can make a full run incl. tumbling with a DC increase, too.
I have trouble with the image of people using acrobatic to avoid an attack of opportunity while running in a straight line and losing the dexterity bonus to AC.
You still must make a acrobatic DC against the CMD of the foes. If there are more foes the DC is increased, too.
So I don´t see a problem using running and tumbling - but I am not sure if I can make a extra action on the end of the run.
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You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10." so you already have a way to move at full speed (and x2 your full speed using 2 actions) while using Acrobatics, but you would suffer from a DC increase. Saying "I run" seem to be simply an attempt to avoid the DC increase.But you must make a fullround movement and not a movement on full speed and an attack. The speed on this run is still halfed and you can make a full run incl. tumbling with a DC increase, too.
Not the same thing. With the +10 to the DC you must use two actions. The first to move at your full base speed, the second to move again at your full base speed. This way you use your full round to move at twice your base speed and you suffer a +10 to the DC.
Your way you avoid the +10 to the DC, and that is asking a lot. I wouldn't allow it as there is way to do what you want following the rules.
There is little, if any, actual prohibition against a running tumble. In my own game, I'd lock in the +10 DC to do it at full speed if you want to run and acrobatics your way through AOOs. This isn't required by the rules but it is a reasonable compromise between rules as written and reality (a concept with which the game is often fast and loose).
I went back to the skill and read up on it. I think the interesting quote is "If you attempt to move through an enemy’s space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity."
So if you're running past an enemy (CMD 20; passing through just one threatened square), I'd require an acrobatics check of 30 (CMD + 10 for full speed per my previous statement). If you pass the check, you've successfully acrobat-ed past the guy. If you fail the check, you stop in the threatened square and the enemy gets an AOO. You have lost the move action, which in this case was your Run. Regardless of the AOO's hit or miss, your turn is over and your done running.
So yes, I think you can run and acrobat per the rules. Failing the check will cause you to stop and get attacked.
You can attempt to acrobatics (tumble) past an opponent, fail (and provoke an AoO) and still carry on moving with the same move action. However if you attempt to tumble through an enemies space (at +5DC) and fail, that movement attempt ends.
Moving at full speed tacks on another +10 DC on both cases. I would also say running will tack on a +10 to the DC.
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There is little, if any, actual prohibition against a running tumble. In my own game, I'd lock in the +10 DC to do it at full speed if you want to run and acrobatics your way through AOOs. This isn't required by the rules but it is a reasonable compromise between rules as written and reality (a concept with which the game is often fast and loose).
I went back to the skill and read up on it. I think the interesting quote is "If you attempt to move through an enemy’s space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity."
So if you're running past an enemy (CMD 20; passing through just one threatened square), I'd require an acrobatics check of 30 (CMD + 10 for full speed per my previous statement). If you pass the check, you've successfully acrobat-ed past the guy. If you fail the check, you stop in the threatened square and the enemy gets an AOO. You have lost the move action, which in this case was your Run. Regardless of the AOO's hit or miss, your turn is over and your done running.
So yes, I think you can run and acrobat per the rules. Failing the check will cause you to stop and get attacked.
Murphys, I think that you are reading the SRD, in Pathfinder the check has changed, it is not a flat DC of 15 or 20, but:
Situation ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.....,,,,, Base Acrobatics DC*
Move through a threatened area ........ Opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
Move through an enemy's space ........ 5 + opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
Not the same thing. With the +10 to the DC you must use two actions. The first to move at your full base speed, the second to move again at your full base speed.
And you can take the DC+10 to make a full run (4x base speed) with tumbling, too.
If you rule (like MurphysParadox) that a failed acrobatic check will end the movement - than one fail will end "both" actions. So it´s could be better to use two actions with a +10 as one action without a +10.
You can attempt to acrobatics (tumble) past an opponent, fail (and provoke an AoO) and still carry on moving with the same move action.
Can you give me a quote, where I can find this?
Because if you can tumble past an opponent and can carry on after a fail, this should be the same for tumble through a threatend area :-)