I'm a sucker for campaign settings.
I've been intrigued by the Midgard setting for years but initially stayed away from it as in it's early publications, it seemed to be oriented towards 4e. With later products embracing PFRPG and with the subsequent launch of the Midgard Campaign Setting, I decided to revisit the line and take another look.
Obviously, there are a ton of positive reviews out there. I've read what I could find in the way of reviews and previews. I'm very intrigued. It sounds like the kind of setting that caters to my tastes.
However, while most of the reviews highlight the elements that make Midgard great, I haven't found much that contrasts Midgard to other settings aside from the Eastern European & Slavic influences.
Now, I'm a big Golarion fan and heavily invested in it. That said, there are elements of it that I don't care for (Andoran, Galt, Alkenstar - I'm looking at you).
For fans of the Midgard setting, if you can give me some input on the following questions, I'd greatly appreciate it.
1. Despite the inclusion of additional "core setting" races like Kobolds & Minotaurs, does Midgard still support PFRPG core races?
2. Are the Midgard-spins on races flavor/seasoning or do they make it more difficult to incoroproate "standard" PFRPG elements (adventures, 3PP products, etc.)? As a comparison point, I felt that the Dragonlance setting was guilty of this -- the Dragonlance seasoning was so heavy that incorporating material from other sources required HEAVY modification.
3. Clockwork & guns. I know Zobeck is the clockwork city and that there are gearwork PCs and that dwarves make guns. I tend to dislike these elements as they tend to push a setting heavily towards Victorian-style influences, artwork, & cultural anachronisms. I like these influences but I want knights with plate and lance, not musketeer-style warfare being the norm. I want Thief the Dark Project where the technology influences but the setting is still more grounded in the Medieval, not Dishonored (great game, though) where the Industrial age is upon us.
4. Knights We've finally got a decent knight-type class in the cavalier. I want knights, tourneys, squires, and lances. I don't want Revolutionary War-cosplay in my fantasy calling themselves Knights despite how much I might like the anti-slavery/freedom foundation.
5. I want a setting that can cover the style and themes of things like the Witcher, Dragon Age, and Thief video games. My read is that this is a "yes", but looking for some validation.
6. Does Midgard have plenty of wilderness/blank space to support themes of exploration, settlement founding, and nation-building?
7. How easy would it be for Midgard to support the inclusion of other 3PP material such as Freeport, Razor Coast, or 0one Games' the Great City? (If these settings were brought in-line with Midgard's tech level?)
8. What departures from "traditional"/"kitchen-sink" PF settings can you NOT avoid? What types of FRPG-play does Midgard NOT do well? For example, do orcs get shafted in favor of kobolds, minotaurs, and the dragon-kin-race?
9. Pathfinder integration Midgard didn't start as a PFRPG setting, so I don't expect it to conform to everything - but I'm guessing things like Golarion goblins, ogres, gnomes, etc. are out the window.
Thanks!
Contributor
|
I'm a sucker for campaign settings.
I've been intrigued by the Midgard setting for years but initially stayed away from it as in it's early publications, it seemed to be oriented towards 4e. With later products embracing PFRPG and with the subsequent launch of the Midgard Campaign Setting, I decided to revisit the line and take another look.
Obviously, there are a ton of positive reviews out there. I've read what I could find in the way of reviews and previews. I'm very intrigued. It sounds like the kind of setting that caters to my tastes.
However, while most of the reviews highlight the elements that make Midgard great, I haven't found much that contrasts Midgard to other settings aside from the Eastern European & Slavic influences.
Now, I'm a big Golarion fan and heavily invested in it. That said, there are elements of it that I don't care for (Andoran, Galt, Alkenstar - I'm looking at you).
For fans of the Midgard setting, if you can give me some input on the following questions, I'd greatly appreciate it.
1. Despite the inclusion of additional "core setting" races like Kobolds & Minotaurs, does Midgard still support PFRPG core races?
2. Are the Midgard-spins on races flavor/seasoning or do they make it more difficult to incoroproate "standard" PFRPG elements (adventures, 3PP products, etc.)? As a comparison point, I felt that the Dragonlance setting was guilty of this -- the Dragonlance seasoning was so heavy that incorporating material from other sources required HEAVY modification.
3. Clockwork & guns. I know Zobeck is the clockwork city and that there are gearwork PCs and that dwarves make guns. I tend to dislike these elements as they tend to push a setting heavily towards Victorian-style influences, artwork, & cultural anachronisms. I like these influences but I want knights with plate and lance, not musketeer-style warfare being the norm. I want Thief the Dark Project where the technology influences but the setting is still more grounded in...
1. Yes. All the Core races are present.
2. Most "generic" adventures are similar enough to incorporate; Midgard = fantasy Europe. Some regions have analogues, like Ustalav and Morgau-Doresh. Something pretty specific, like the Runelords, requires extensive revision. Baba Yaga, however, is present in both universes.
There are few aspects of Midgard that differentiate it substantially from a standard setting except for the more Central European feel, and basis even more stongly in RW myth. Any PF product using RW themes will fit well, so long as they are medieval or renaissance.
3. Guns and clockworks are part of some regions, not others. The general historical period is circa 1550 Europe.
4. Western Midgard has lands of chivalry.
5. The Eastern European themes of the Witcher are very appropriate to Midgard.
6. Lots of forest and plains are uninhabited or monster-infested, & ready for colonization.
7. There's still a fair amount of blank space on the world map for homebrewing or slotting in other settings. Razor Coast might be in the same world, far away. Freeport could southwest, in the Equator. The Great City, I'm not sure about.
8. Orcs do seem less prominent in this setting. Also = there is no "England" with Arthurian (though there are "French" kingdoms) or Robin Hood themes, or Celtic themed land.
9. Midgard does have its own takes on races and cultures but the PF take is not totally variant from it. Both are re-interpretations of old 3.5 tropes. Midgard is actually older than PF, after all.
Did you take a look at the Midgard free preview?
You shouldn't have a problem with most of the things you listed. Orcs are rare, but they do show up in an adventure in the upcoming Midgard Tales--out in July. There's plenty of room to do what you want with the wilderness, and Midgard handles 3PP material just fine. Add in your Freeport, SpirosBlaak, etc. It can handle it!
I've been intrigued by the Midgard setting for years but initially stayed away from it as in it's early publications, it seemed to be oriented towards 4e. With later products embracing PFRPG and with the subsequent launch of the Midgard Campaign Setting, I decided to revisit the line and take another look.
Which is kind of funny, but looking at it, I can see how you might have gotten that impression. Really, it was a 3.5 setting that tried out 4E and settled in Pathfinder...for the most part. There's still some 4E stuff, and occasionally some 13th Age support.
I'm going to follow up from Jeff on a few points, because I can see I"ve been ninja'd.
3. The clockworks and guns are pretty much limited to the Ironcrag Mountains (the dwarves there) and the city of Zobeck. Zobeck's inching towards industrial, in my opinion, but all the adventures written there (so far) have avoided making the clockwork central to the storyline. We've been very cognizant of making the steampunk elements a "season to taste" option. The only exception to this has been an adventure in Midgard Tales dealing with an airship crash, and an adventure in Streets of Zobeck, dealing with a man's reincarnation as a gearforged.
There are some "lightning guns" in the Wasted West/ruins of Ankeshel, but these are meant to be extremely limited in number.
6. I would think so, especially because the areas far to the south are yet undefined.
7. Spirosblaak gets a shout out in Journeys/Pirates of the West. Freeport is in there too, I believe, and the Kobolds licensed the setting for the upcoming adventure "Dark Deeds in Freeport."
8. Orcs are almost non-existent. There's a smallish enclave in one particular geographic region. Otherwise, no real orc presence. I'm not sure there's a playstyle Midgard doesn't manage...I'd need some more questions on this one.
9. half elves aren't really there-- they're "elfmarked." Gnomes have a much more diabolic shade, certainly not the ones in Golarion. Elves are much less common (perhaps even on orcish-type numbers). There are a few other races to fill the gaps, though. Tengu (called huginn), gearforged (souls on clockwork bodies), centaurs, kobolds, ghouls, that sort of thing.
I've been a patron since Empire of the Ghouls, and have just about everything, so feel free to ask away.
-Ben.
Thanks, Jeff, Christina, & terraleon!
Terraleon - I guess in terms of additional examples of departing from the "standard" would be things like the following:
Druids devoted to Titans and being at odds with Clerics (Scarred Lands)
Tinker Gnome, Kender, Draconians (DragonLance)
Codified sorcery / Towers of High Sorcery (DragonLance)
Technology Departures - railroads, steamjacks (Iron Kingdoms); advanced firearms (Reign of Winter) -- I know about the clockwork & firearm "seasonings", but usually this kind of stuff is done in a heavy-handed fashion and isn't easily toned down.
Also, out of curiosity, since the world is flat, are its limits known? In other words, are there unexplored continents or is the area defined in the Campaign Setting the RAW geographic limit of the world?
Also, out of curiosity, since the world is flat, are its limits known? In other words, are there unexplored continents or is the area defined in the Campaign Setting the RAW geographic limit of the world?
There is an adventure set on the Edge, but it's not as if the entire map is defined (although, thinking about it, I guess it would be theoretically possible to determine the overall size of the world, based on the size of a degree of arc)
There are certainly areas which are yet undefined. In particular, the Southlands, the far East, the areas to the Southwest. Hyperborea is in the far north, but it's unmapped. Additionally, while there's an underdark area, there's no explanation as to what might be on the *other side* of the world.
-Ben.
Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge
|
Technology Departures - railroads, steamjacks (Iron Kingdoms); advanced firearms (Reign of Winter) -- I know about the clockwork & firearm "seasonings", but usually this kind of stuff is done in a heavy-handed fashion and isn't easily toned down.
And this is exactly why gunpowder is purely optional and the canon on it in the setting book is limited to a sidebar. Most settings that want gunpowder embrace it, and you can't get rid of it later. Midgard holds gunpowder at arm's length in a kuo-toan mancatcher because you just can't trust it.
Also, out of curiosity, since the world is flat, are its limits known? In other words, are there unexplored continents or is the area defined in the Campaign Setting the RAW geographic limit of the world?
There are at least 2 continents not shown on the core setting map. One of them is the Southland that Ben refers to.
Congrats, folks. You edged my temptation from "curiously considering" over the cliff to "bought". Just skimming the Campaign Setting book thus far but my initial reaction is "WOW, that's damn cool!".
Sooo, when does that softcover get reprinted again? :)
Thanks for the feedback folks! It helped make up my mind to give Midgard a whirl.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is the gunslinger class appropriate in "base" Midgard?
Mike
It's appropriate if you want it to be. It's not the cop-out answer that it sounds like, they've truly treated it as an optional element that can be utilized or ignored per the GM's desires.
That said, "base" Midgard has the development of gunpowder solely residing with the Cantonal dwarves of the Ironcrag Mountains and it is recommended that a gunslinger PC have a tie to that region to provide a canonical justification.
Also, Kobold Press did a Gunslinger supplement that, as I understand it, introduces Vril "guns" - arcane powered firearms that are tied to ancient & forgotten empires. Even if that doesn't fit your idea of a gunslinger, it shows an example of how to incorporate it into the setting.
I'll close with this:
I'm still on the fence with the gunslinger and firearms in my PFRPG campaigns. That said, I think the more limited, canonical option is a much easier step to take than the "anyone who wants it" approach advocated by the pro-fantasy-firearms crowd wanted to see in Golarion. To be fair to Paizo, they largely held the line of presenting it as an option but the Inner Sea Campaign Guide did retcon earlier treatments on firearms to make it "more possible". --I wasn't a fan of that approach.
Midgard presented in such a way with built-in setting controls that I went so far as to allow a dwarven gunslinger in my Midgard campaign.
Midgard has become the go-to campaign setting for me.
|
Midgard has become the go-to campaign setting for me.
Thanks for the pointers.
Yeah I'm starting a game next week in Midgard. I was just curious. I saw that SpirosBlaak can't be placed in Midgard so I told the players if they had Gunpowder their characters were from far away.
I did the Southlands Kickstarter too.
Wolfgang any chance of a Castle Shadowcrag available for Pathfinder? I know it wasn't released for 3.x generally.
Mike
Midgard has become the go-to campaign setting for me.Thanks for the pointers.
Yeah I'm starting a game next week in Midgard. I was just curious. I saw that SpirosBlaak can't be placed in Midgard so I told the players if they had Gunpowder their characters were from far away.
I did the Southlands Kickstarter too.
Wolfgang any chance of a Castle Shadowcrag available for Pathfinder? I know it wasn't released for 3.x generally.
Mike
I don't know much about SpirosBlaak, so I can't speak to setting incompatibility but Midgard embraces a "make it your own" philosophy so I don't know why you couldn't have it sitting somewhere "off the map". Obviously, that's not canon but likely wouldn't be setting-breaking.
I know that I'm strongly considering placing Freeport in the Western Ocean once I have details on the Southlands. I'm hoping to be able to have a logical placement for the pirate haven where it can reach the shipping lanes between northern Midgard and the Southlands.
|
|
Midgard has become the go-to campaign setting for me.Thanks for the pointers.
Yeah I'm starting a game next week in Midgard. I was just curious. I saw that SpirosBlaak can't be placed in Midgard so I told the players if they had Gunpowder their characters were from far away.
I did the Southlands Kickstarter too.
Wolfgang any chance of a Castle Shadowcrag available for Pathfinder? I know it wasn't released for 3.x generally.
Mike
I don't know much about SpirosBlaak, so I can't speak to setting incompatibility but Midgard embraces a "make it your own" philosophy so I don't know why you couldn't have it sitting somewhere "off the map". Obviously, that's not canon but likely wouldn't be setting-breaking.
I know that I'm strongly considering placing Freeport in the Western Ocean once I have details on the Southlands. I'm hoping to be able to have a logical placement for the pirate haven where it can reach the shipping lanes between northern Midgard and the Southlands.
BPorter, Kobold Press recently released a Freeport collection of adventures called Dark Deeds in Freeport. I think I've heard Wolfgang give his thoughts on where he'd place Freeport in Midgard before ... and I kind of think somewhere in the Wester Ocean is where is suggested ...
Midgard has become the go-to campaign setting for me.Thanks for the pointers.
Yeah I'm starting a game next week in Midgard. I was just curious. I saw that SpirosBlaak can't be placed in Midgard so I told the players if they had Gunpowder their characters were from far away.
I did the Southlands Kickstarter too.
Wolfgang any chance of a Castle Shadowcrag available for Pathfinder? I know it wasn't released for 3.x generally.
Mike
I don't know much about SpirosBlaak, so I can't speak to setting incompatibility but Midgard embraces a "make it your own" philosophy so I don't know why you couldn't have it sitting somewhere "off the map". Obviously, that's not canon but likely wouldn't be setting-breaking.
I know that I'm strongly considering placing Freeport in the Western Ocean once I have details on the Southlands. I'm hoping to be able to have a logical placement for the pirate haven where it can reach the shipping lanes between northern Midgard and the Southlands.
BPorter, Kobold Press recently released a Freeport collection of adventures called Dark Deeds in Freeport. I think I've heard Wolfgang give his thoughts on where he'd place Freeport in Midgard before ... and I kind of think somewhere in the Wester Ocean is where is suggested ...
Thanks, Marc! It's been on my wish list but there's been other Midgard goodies higher on the list. Nice to know that there's some official guidance on where to fit it into Midgard.
@Qstor - SpirosBlaak appears on the map of Midgard's western Ocean in Bosun's Booty: Extras for Journeys to the West
@BPorter: Similarly, I would suggest locating Freeport off the Western Coast near Barsella
A Castle Shadowcrag for Pathfinder sounds like a blast. I can see that as a possibility for 2015, right now I gotta wrangle Southlands for a while.
Halls of the Mountain King? and other closed adventures? pleeeease!?!
I have to put it out there, I would love to see some form of "Steam and Brass" sooner or later.
|
I have to put it out there, I would love to see some form of "Steam and Brass" sooner or later.
I believe there was concern about some of the earlier projects being exclusive to the patrons. I was a patron of a few early projects during the LiveJournal days (was too late for S&B however), and I have no issue with any of the material on those projects I joined being updated and made available to others.
I have to put it out there, I would love to see some form of "Steam and Brass" sooner or later.I believe there was concern about some of the earlier projects being exclusive to the patrons. I was a patron of a few early projects during the LiveJournal days (was too late for S&B however), and I have no issue with any of the material on those projects I joined being updated and made available to others.
I do recall this. It was a long shot request, but I figure with it being 8 years gone and a revision of system it might be possible. Would love to see it anyways!!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm. What does the kobold overlord have up his sleeves in terms of pathfinder upgrades for ancient 3.5 adventures? No one knows!
However, remember that courts of the shadow fay got an amazing upgrade to PF. I ran it and everyone had an awesome time!
|
|
Well, it's not a sequel to Courts of the Shadow Fey, but there will be a new Pathfinder RPG adventure from Kobold Press in early 2014 that will involve the shadow few ... or, more accurately, one specific and rather mysterious shadow fey ...
I know the author very well and he assures me the adventure will be really cool :)
I would completely use _Sorrow_ by Richard Pett in _Midgard Tales_ as a prequel to _Courts of the Shadowfey_.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I had a few other questions :)
In the Midgard campaign book there's a mention of a players guide to the elven area/Dornig. Is this going to be worked on?
Whats in the Grandfather Tears forest area? I couldn't find mention of it in the campaign book? Who "controls" it?
What alignment is St Piran? The miner god...
I'm starting a new campaign in Midgard on Saturday. thanks!
Mike
|
|
Well, it's not a sequel to Courts of the Shadow Fey, but there will be a new Pathfinder RPG adventure from Kobold Press in early 2014 that will involve the shadow few ... or, more accurately, one specific and rather mysterious shadow fey ...
I know the author very well and he assures me the adventure will be really cool :)
Did you mean 2015? :)
Mike
|
|
Well, it's not a sequel to Courts of the Shadow Fey, but there will be a new Pathfinder RPG adventure from Kobold Press in early 2014 that will involve the shadow few ... or, more accurately, one specific and rather mysterious shadow fey ...
I know the author very well and he assures me the adventure will be really cool :)
Did you mean 2015? :)
Mike
Woops! Yes, yes I did! :)