I'm currently working on a Monk build - the bug to create a martial arts bad-ass hit me. I read up on the Qinggong Monk and loved it, and I wanted to combine it with the Master of Many Styles, who is just so cool. I've also been considering the Drunken Master as a third archetype for extra drunken Ki.
The only real issue is, I'm not the best cruncher when it comes to builds. Hoping for a little help for effectiveness here. After reading the two relevant guides on these forums (and one was Treantmonk's Core only guide), both advocate strength-based monks, eschewing some AC in favor of more damage. With the MoMS, this would seem to give good synergy with Crane Style, Wing, and Riposte, along with Snake Style and Fang working together for attacking awesomeness.
My initial build took a different approach - going in favor of AC, and taking styles that let me take advantage of my opponent's misses (Panther, Crane Riposte, and Snake Fang in particular), and dealing low, but (hopefully) fairly regular damage.
I'm not sure which would be more effective in the long run. And Drunken Master is an archetype that can still be added to this build. The temporary Ki functions like normal Ki, correct? There's nothing the Drunken Master gives up that I had other plans for with the Qinggong portion of the build. Also, Vow of Silence for the RP (ironically enough - I RP by not talking at all!)
So Paizo, I entreat ye - help me build a Monk worthy of being in a foreign wuxia film! ;-)
20 point-buy. I prefer human and human-like races. No Kitsunes please!
My initial build was like this:
Monk Master of Many Styles/Qinggong 1STR: 10
DEX: 18 (Racial +2 included)
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 16
CHA: 7Feats: Weapon Finesse (we houserule this also includes Agile Maneuvers), Crane Style, Snapping Turtle Style (I would rather this be Snake style, or possibly Dragon style if the build has more strength in it).
Traits: Threatening Defender (reduce the penalty for fighting defensively by one - with Crane Wing it becomes +2 AC, -1 to hit and with Riposte it becomes +2 AC, -0 to hit, and it increases with Acrobatics ranks). Second Trait: Unknown
This build: With this build including Snapping Turtle, I have 20 AC at level one (4 Dex, 3 Wis, 1 Shield, 2 Defensive), with +3 to hit. Damage is a piddling 1D6, but hopefully an Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile Property), a belt of Dex and possibly buffs from casters would help it out once it hit level 4 or so. With barkskin from Qinggong, the AC would be great for several levels, leaving only the damage problem to solve. I planned on investing in weapons like the Sai to perform combat maneuvers as well as provide materials for penetrating DR. No plans to take the combat maneuver feats at this time. If you think it's for the best - convince me!
Soupturtle summed it pretty well. Monk's accuracy to hit is 2nd rate even with flurry of blows, without it you are really going to struggle. If you don't hit often, and your damage sucks, it really doesn't matter that you have a stellar AC.
The MoMS is a bad idea, it takes something that a monk - the only unarmed specialist class - should be able to do (blend different unarmed combat styles) and makes an archetype of it that gives up the only monk feature that would make doing so worthwhile. By accident or design it's custom-made as a dip option for non-monks to become better than monks at what monks are supposed to specialise in. My best advice...don't go there. Pick one combat style and stick with it.
Going the dex route will leave you a bit behind offensively, as stated, but you are at least not badly behind, and the MAD is not too bad. A strength-based monk is badly behind on AC, so choose your poison if you want to be a monk.
That said, you can still be an effective player with a qingong dex-based monk. I would recommend taking some maneuver feats at low level - Agile Maneuvers and Imrpoved Grapple saved my bacon a number of times, it allows you to tie down a foe that you can't significantly damage. Then Improved Trip at 6th level will give you another option to discombobulate foes. It won't work on everything, but it will help. Snake Style is good because it will give you a lot of extra attacks that you will need to up your damage output when going toe-to-toe with foes.
Just curious: If somebody wants to primarily be a monk, is it worth it to take a 3-4 dip in Brawler for the extra feats and Close Combat bonuses? With 4 levels you can get Specialization while still maintaining your max Unarmed and Wis to AC from a monk's robe. You would also boost your Fort, which tends to be the lowest of the Saves, though you do so at the expense of Reflex and Will. The only real problem that jumps out at me is that it can make the progression a little slow if you are playing from level 1.
Just curious: If somebody wants to primarily be a monk, is it worth it to take a 3-4 dip in Brawler for the extra feats and Close Combat bonuses? With 4 levels you can get Specialization while still maintaining your max Unarmed and Wis to AC from a monk's robe. You would also boost your Fort, which tends to be the lowest of the Saves, though you do so at the expense of Reflex and Will. The only real problem that jumps out at me is that it can make the progression a little slow if you are playing from level 1.
Certainly could be. It's hard to be an effective monk and still be, well, a monk. I used a two level paladin dip to get smite - not for the damage or hit bonus of it, but for the DR bypass. Mind you, it made my saves truly awesome (I had a decent Cha, from rolled stats). Take a dip of Unamred Fighter and you get to use all the 'monk' weapons (yes, it's insane, an unarmed fighter gets weapon proficiency with all 'monk' type weapons when the monk doesn't, but what can I say?).