Hey everyone
So I still have some trouble getting grappling and especially the grab ability together correctly.
This is kind of important, seeing as how my party already has the second wildshaping druid with a companion that has grab as well.
The grab ability says the creature automatically deals damage with the natural attack that initiated the grapple through grab when making a check to maintain the grapple.
Does that mean the creature is still free to inflict damage as the regular grapple rules state:
You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.
Or make any of the other actions associated with maintaining a grapple, such as move or pin?
Let's say our druid is in dire tiger wild shape, he grabs a target with one of his claws.
The next turn the target did not manage to break the grapple, so the druid makes his action maintain the grapple and succeeds. According to the grab rules he now automatically deals claw damage (because that is the weapon the grab was made with).
Now, if i read it right, he is also allowed to make any of the other actions, such as inflict damage with another natural attack, so he uses his bite and finally he gets to rake.
Is that correct?
I believe that is only when you use the "hold" option of grab (which is not recommended since its a whopping -20 to make and maintain the grapple)
Other than that I think you can still actually do anything you normally could as long as you don't use the "limb" that is "holding" the creature grabbed because when using the "hold" option the grappler does not gain the grappled condition
So the auto damage from the natural weapon that started the grab only happens if you do the -20 CMB hold thing and if you don't it is exactly as a regular grapple?
Your first intention was correct.
After maintaining the grapple you inflict 'grab' damage to the target and then you can do a grapple action/option (damage, pin , move, ..). It has nothing to do with hold etc. If you have greater grapple you can maintain the grapple two times and inflict up to four times the damage (2x grab and 2x damage grapple option).
Alright, thanks a lot!
I read the following all having to do with the "hold" option since it says "hold" multiple times
The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).
There is no initial damage from the hold unless you have constrict...but anytime after that when you maintain the hold you deal damage based on the limb that is "holding"
Unless you use the hold option all grab does is give you a +4 and allow you to use a free action to establish a grapple without provoking.