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Hello everyone! We're getting closer to the release of Pact Magic Unbound, Vol. 2 so I wanted to take the time to make sure that I answered as many questions as possible from the first book in the series, Pact Magic Unbound, Vol. 1.
If you have any questions that you would like answered, please post them in this thread or reply to the comment in our Facebook group here. Answers to questions will be posted by myself here and on Facebook, and I will be compiling them into a free to download PDF at an undetermined point in the future; probably when Dario and I have finished our errata of Pact Magic Unbound, Vol. 1.
So, ask away!
Do Pact Magic Archetypes for non-Occultist classes gain the bind additional spirits class feature?
No. When archetypes state that they grant a character the seal pacts with spirits, “as an occultist equal to their level,” it is referring directly to the bind spirits class feature. Bind additional spirits and bind spirits are not the same ability, so archetypes are limited to a single spirit unless noted otherwise.
Can I use a spirit’s granted abilities to qualify for feats and prestige classes?
This is entirely up to your GM, but personally I would suggest taking this at a case-by-case basis.
Feats: Minor granted abilities bestow the benefits of feats, not the feat itself. For example, Tyrant Cromwell’s savage attacks granted ability bestows the benefits of Power Attack and Vital Strike, but savage attacks is neither Power Attack nor Vital Strike and cannot be used to meet the prerequisites of feats or prestige classes that require those feats.
Skill Ranks: Spirits always grant an insight bonus on skill checks, so their minor granted abilities do not meet the prerequisites of feats or prestige classes that require actual ranks in skills.
Spellcasting: All granted abilities are supernatural abilities, so they never meet the prerequisite of feats and prestige classes that require the ability to cast spells.
In all other cases, a spirit’s granted abilities can be used to meet the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes at the GM's discretion.
What is the modifier if I am my spirit's favored enemy and favored ally?
Nothing; the two conditions cancel each other out.
I was wondering about this ability:
"Psychic Foresight: You gain a number of psychic motes equal to your Charisma bonus (minimum 1). You can spend 1 mote as a swift action in order to grant yourself a +10 insight bonus to any d20 roll that you make. These motes last 24 hours or until your pact with Daeminthos ends."
What if I used the feat that lets me extend the length of a pact to days? Would I lose all motes after 24 hours even though I'm still bonded? Would I regain motes the next day after resting (as is tradition)?
Just as an aside, these type of things usually go into the discussion for the product itself so that people who have these questions can simply read that discussion and find answers. In that regard you might consider linking this discussion from there so that they can follow along without significant effort.
I posted the link, but I made a separate thread in order to make sure that it was easy to follow along with the FAQs. I didn't want people to have to wade through 3+ pages of "Aw man, I love this product!" in order to find answers.
(As an aside, I love it when you people post, "Aw yeah, I love this product!" Keep doing that.)
Also, sorry it has taken me a little while to answer your question, chaoseffect. I needed to think about how to handle the wordage conflict and Flexible Pactmaking might need an errata for that to happen. Stay tuned!
Some of the Unbound Occultist's monstrous aspects state that they are expended after use. Does Rapid Recovery and similar abilities reduce the number of rounds that they are expended for?
No. Those abilities all state that they are expended 'as though' they were major granted abilities. They are not major granted abilities; they are monstrous aspects, and therefore ineligible to benefit from effects that reduce expenditure.
If I multiclass with more than one archetype with the Constellation Aspect class feature, can I select the same constellation multiple times?
Yes. If you do, the binder level reduction stacks, to a minimum of a 1st level binder. For example, a 4th level occult priest / untouchable would be treated as a 1st level binder for most of the constellations (4 / 2 = 2, 2 / 2 = 1).
What does the Constellation Alignment ability penalize?
There are some unfortunate typos from an earlier draft in some of the spirits. All classes with the Constellation Alignment class feature are barred from the constellation that opposes their aligned constellation and their binder level is reduced by ½ when attempting to make binding checks with unaligned spirits. This penalty only applies to binding checks, which basically means you're probably going to make a poor pact with spirits that you're not aligned with.
Can an Ergon Bloodline Sorcerer with the Ergon Bloodline still gain the bonus on binding checks from Flexible Pactmaking even though his spirits are forcibly expelled when he prepares spells for the day?
No. That bloodline ability specifically states that the sorcerer never benefits from the Flexible Pactmaking feat, including gaining a bonus on binding checks or reducing the duration of the pact. It is truly a useless feat for Ergon Bloodline sorcerers.
What happens if I use the Crossblooded Sorcerer archetype with the Ravaged Bloodline?
The archetype states that the Crossblooded Sorcerer can select bonus spells from either archetype. The Ravaged Bloodline has no bonus spells. Therefore, you must select all of your bonus spells from your other bloodline.
It is not a terrible idea to allow the Crossblooded Sorcerer to choose between one or the either; either the Ravaged Bloodline's pact magic or the other bloodline's bonus spells. That said, deviating from the standard listed above is ultimately up to the GM.
Here's my question: I already own Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic for 3.5, along with the Pathfinder conversion document. Why should I also buy Pact Magic Unbound?
Here's my question: I already own Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic for 3.5, along with the Pathfinder conversion document. Why should I also buy Pact Magic Unbound?
This isn't a question that is appropriate for the purposes of this thread. That said, I've answered your question in the product page here.
This one has the answer to your question, chaoseffect.
Can a spirit that I have affected with Flexible Pactmaking be exorcised from me?
Yes. Flexible Pactmaking only prevents you from willingly terminating the pact with Expel Spirits.
If I extend a spirit's pact with Flexible Pactmaking, do I lose the spirit's benefits after 24 hours anyway?
No. A spirit's granted abilities last for the duration of the pact. An upcoming errata will correct any spirits who claim that a spirit's granted ability only lasts for 24 hours.
If I use Flexible Pactmaking to make a pact last for more than 24 hours, can I rest and recover daily uses of my spirit's abilities in the same way that a spellcaster rests to replenish their spells?
No.
Thanks for the clarification and I'm looking forward to Volume 2.
If I multiclass with more than one archetype with the Constellation Aspect class feature, can I select the same constellation multiple times?
Yes. If you do, the binder level reduction stacks, to a minimum of a 1st level binder. For example, a 4th level occult priest / untouchable would be treated as a 1st level binder for most of the constellations (4 / 2 = 2, 2 / 2 = 1).
This errata needs an errata. Errata-ception. •_•
The question should refer to "Constellation Alignment" rather than "Constellation Aspect".
*Update on Errata*
So far, so good. Most of the fixes are wordage changes. Here are the major changes from the current print version:
» Constellation Alignment: I realized that this ability was all over the place in the book, with some classes reducing all aspects of the spirit by 1/2 if the spirit was unaligned while others only reduced the binding level. I reflected on how I wanted the system to work, and decided to err on the side of generosity; in the upcoming errata, if you have the Constellation Alignment class feature, you only reduce your binder level by 1/2 with spirits that are not allied to your aligned constellation; the spirit's granted abilities are not affected by this reduction in the slightest.
What this means is that you are significantly more likely to seal a poor pact with such a spirit, or you are going to be forced to spend a feat on Flexible Pactmaking in order to try and even out that disadvantage. This change was made for two reasons; first, it resembles the wizard still being able to cast spells from his opposed school (its just annoying hard to do so) and second there are not many spirits currently published, so it seems unnecessicary to punish characters who want to specialize in a constellation like the Fiend Constellation, which doesn't get its first spirit in Volume 1 until 9th level (Dark Blood).
» Fey Barraddu is getting nerfed. His capstone empowerment no longer reduces the action required for him to transform and it no longer allows you to transform into magical beasts. It still allows you to transform into vermin, however. The ability to transform into magical beasts will be given back to Fey Barraddu in an upcoming product, but I can't say anything else about it at this time.
Can I use Jayna's Wish to cast spells from the Void elemental school if I select Void as my Aspect of Seven Element?
The Void elemental school is intended to be used with Jayna Warlock if you select the Aspect of Seven. We weren't allowed to refer to the book it was printed in for copyright reasons, but that shouldn't stop you from using it with your GM's blessing.
Comments about form.
Originally I replied to your post somewhat defensively, defending my reasoning. To be frank, the only real nerf to Fey Baraddu was the removal of the move action clause of the Capstone Empowerment. The Magical Beast line was from a build where Fey Baraddu's transformative ability was a minutes-per-day minor granted ability; it changed relatively late in the book's design, which was how it slipped by. It was never supposed to allow Magical Beasts and I fully planned to change it even before you brought it to my attention in your comments; I may have just asked for submissions a few days ago, but I have been gathering feedback and writing errata for this book for several months now.
Regardless, the error did slip by and after consulting with some gamer friends, I feel that while the capstone empowerment is a little better than I would like, it isn't ridiculously strong in and of itself. Fey Baraddu's major granted ability is very strong on its own. The druid gets its goodies at least one level before Fey Baraddu does in most cases, however, and at every level of gameplay the druid offers more choices in what you can transform into whereas Fey Baraddu offers you more uptime on your transformations. I think the two abilities are very close, and that is problematic. It won't happen again in future products, but the damage, as they say, is already done.
Because of this, that errata to Fey Baraddu will not be made, but it is not because of your previous reply. As a matter of fact, I'm quite a bit disappointed in how you chose to voice your disapproval and I was insulted by it. If you had said, "I don't think you should make this change because of A), B), and C)," instead of "Oh you're only changing this because I showed you it was OP; WEAK!" we could have instead had a discussion that would have probably ended with the same outcome.
Ultimately, every designer is going to make the call that he or she feels is best for their product as a whole. Almost all of us are gamers, and we don't run around making changes to suck the fun out of other people's experiences.
I apologize for that comment. I was out of line. I do ask that you look at it from my point of view though, you critiqued my build and in your critique are 2 misconceptions about the rules (Fey not allowing magical beasts and not being able to use spirits to qualify for feats), I explain how the rules as written actually work, and then almost immediately both are up for errata. It was frustrating, and I expressed that frustration poorly. I am sorry for that. (And frustration was all it was, I didn't necessarily disagree with the errata (I actually didn't have an opinion on it), it just frustrated me that you were changing it immediately after I'd explained it was all. So please don't hold back on it on my account, if it needs it go for it.)
Really, I think gathering errata and FAQ materials for your product is a good idea, and I don't wish to discourage you from that. And in the spirit of that, I think you need to take a serious look at flexible binding. Flexible binding grants the same bonus on binding rolls as 20 levels of a spirit binding class. (However, without it occultists will be hard pressed to make consistent use of their pact augmentations and capstones will be virtually impossible for appropriate leveled spirits, so there is that to juggle.)
I accept your apology.
That said, I've scoured my rulebook and have still yet to find any indication of the "24 hours and its permanent" rule; the only place where I've sort of seen it is with the magic belts / headbands that apply ability score bonuses, and that never struck me as a rule that applied to all aspects of the game. That said, it was never my intent to allow binders to use spirits to ignore the prerequisites of feats, which is why the "benefits only" errata was issued; more than anything, it was an errata made to clean up the language rather than nerf a style of play, because I never intended the book to support that interaction in the first place. I can understand how that might be frustrating and I apologize. However, issuing that errata has allowed me to make sure that there are some places that I can give some leeway and allow spirits to meet the prerequisites of certain feats; you'll notice that I specifically called out weapon proficiency as being acceptable after reading your build.
I'm going to talk more about the errata in the product thread so this thread can remain focused on FAQs.
I had another quick question about the Binder Secret Sustenance: PFSRD has it listed that the secret makes it so that you don't require sleep as well as food or drink while bound to a spirit. This is different than what my version of the pdf says, so I was wondering if pfsrd just flat out made a mistake or if it was changed and my pdf just doesn't reflect that.
I had another quick question about the Binder Secret Sustenance: PFSRD has it listed that the secret makes it so that you don't require sleep as well as food or drink while bound to a spirit. This is different than what my version of the pdf says, so I was wondering if pfsrd just flat out made a mistake or if it was changed and my pdf just doesn't reflect that.
What does your version of the PDF say? My print copy matches the PFSRD perfectly.
After looking at it again, I realize that mine is the same as this page, but that I was looking at the quick description on the Binder Secrets page; the quick description is the one that references no longer needing sleep though the proper description does not.
After looking at it again, I realize that mine is the same as this page, but that I was looking at the quick description on the Binder Secrets page; the quick description is the one that references no longer needing sleep though the proper description does not.
Weird. I'll see if I can get that fixed; its probably because the name is very similar to a certain ring. :-)
For the first time I've been able to play an Occultist after a long time looking at it and a question came up in a game today about Vandrae, Drowess Poisontouch's Dark Mantle ability. Is it meant to function as the spell "Darkness" or "Deeper Darkness," i.e. does Dark Vision work inside of it?
@Corlindale: This is a very good catch, and was certainly not how Jayna was intended to be used. I'll see if I can figure out a way to clarify Jayna's abilities; she's tricky because space for her is very limited.
@chaoseffect: It was always intended to function as darkness, except that darkvision can't see through dim light or darkness caused by the veil. Basically, reduces the light level by one step instead of two. I will clean this ability up in the errata.
Side Note: I've been talking with Dario, and I don't think that we'll have this errata out before Vol. 2 is released. Take that as you will.
;-)
Alright, here are my fixes for these problems:
Dark Mantle: As a move action, you radiate an area of darkness within 20 feet, reducing the illumination level around you by one step. This ability otherwise functions as darkness except the affected area is supernaturally dark, preventing creatures with darkvision from seeing within the area if the illumination level is dim lightning or darkness. Multiple uses of this ability do not reduce the illumination area around you by multiple steps. This ability lasts until the pact ends or you suppress it as a move action.
Basically does the same thing. Is a little bit longer, but Vandrae had some empty space to work with on her page. Basically, it was supposed to function as darkness (aka reduce visability by one step) but darkvision couldn't see through it. Hopefully this works out.
Jayna's Wish: You can use this granted ability to cast any 4th level or lower spell from the elemental arcane school that corresponds to your elemental aspect. Spells cast with this granted ability have a maximum duration of 4 rounds, even if they have a duration of instantnaeous or concentration. See the wizard sections of Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Player’s Guide and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Magic for more information on elemental arcane schools. After using this granted ability, it is expended for 5 rounds.
Basically the same thing, but the language involving the duration is a bit clearer. This is a direct nerf to how this ability interacts with most of the "Wall of" spells, but honestly infinite walls of stone is a little silly in the first place.
Song of Rising Barriers: You can create a barrier of elemental energy, based on your elemental aspect. Each barrier lasts a number of rounds per binder level and you may only have one barrier active at a time. Unlike the spells, these barriers do not require concentration to maintain. Creating a new barrier dismisses an existing one. The elements (and their associated spells) are: air (wind wall), earth (wall of stone), fire (wall of fire), metal (wall of iron), void (wall of force), water (wall of ice), and wood (wall of thorns).
This ends up being a small buff to every aspect except earth aspect; when I wrote this ability, I forgot that most barriers were A) concentration effects except for B) wall of stone, which was basically permanent. These changes bring the ability closer in line to what I was intended with Jayna.
So by the errata Dark Mantle is essentially an aura now instead of just something you drop, defeats Dark Vision, and doesn't allow you to see through it? That sounds kinda iffy to me; I really can't think of many circumstances where I would want to blind myself, even if it blinded everyone else around me. At the same time if you could drop on or based on you a Dark Vision defeating darkness effect that doesn't impede you (and as a nice touch let you always Sneak Attack with Vandrae's ability)as a move an infinite amount of timer per, it would seem too strong.
So by the errata Dark Mantle is essentially an aura now instead of just something you drop, defeats Dark Vision, and doesn't allow you to see through it? That sounds kinda iffy to me; I really can't think of many circumstances where I would want to blind myself, even if it blinded everyone else around me. At the same time if you could drop on or based on you a Dark Vision defeating darkness effect that doesn't impede you (and as a nice touch let you always Sneak Attack with Vandrae's ability)as a move an infinite amount of timer per, it would seem too strong.
Blargh, I'm sorry. This is the sort of mistake that you make when you're working on an errata alongside new material. :) You're right, its supposed to just drop an area, not follow you around like a clingy puppy. Hopefully this is the last rewrite I need to do:
Dark Mantle: As a move action, you create a 20-foot area of magical darkness centered on you for the duration of your pact. This ability functions as darkness except the affected area is supernaturally dark, preventing creatures with darkvision from seeing within the area if its illumination level is dim light or darkness. The area of darkness does not move with you, although you can use this ability again to center a new area of darkness on your current location or dismiss an existing area of darkness.
Keep throwing questions at me; with all the designing I'm doing, I can use the extra eyes checking my work. :-P
Fair enough ;p. The errata is a pretty big change for the ability. Before I was thinking that it would a more offensive ability, as many enemy types denied dex + PC with sneak attack + PC with 50% concealment + PC not affected by the darkness = something getting wrecked, but now it's much more like a battlefield control/panic move to cover a retreat.
I feel like I mostly have nitpick questions, but since you asked here's something else I found a little ambiguous:
Demos Kalagos's Time Trick: does this only affect the target or also the damage he caused? Say I used this on someone who just fireball'd me; would I get back the health I lost from it or would he just have his fireball rememorized? How does this work with abilities that can only target a single target once per day, ie a Witch uses Slumber on a target and I then Time Trick the Witch; can the Witch affect that target again?
Demos Kalagos's Time Trick: does this only affect the target or also the damage he caused? Say I used this on someone who just fireball'd me; would I get back the health I lost from it or would he just have his fireball rememorized? How does this work with abilities that can only target a single target once per day, ie a Witch uses Slumber on a target and I then Time Trick the Witch; can the Witch affect that target again?
Just as an FYI, my intent isn't to drastically change the way everything the ability works; I'm trying to be as delicate as I can, but I'll be the first to admit that some of the wording is a little shoddy in some places. (I've only gotten better with experience!) You're right in that Vandrae's ability is designed to be more of a panic button then an offensive ability, but if you build your character with the right feats, it can easily become offensive. I believe there's an entire feat change built around fighting within areas of magical darkness, no? :-P
on Demos, have you read the update to Time Trick that I posted in the Pact Magic Unbound product thread? I made a list of all the errata that I am planning to issue there and I cleaned up the text on that ability considerably.
That said, I wouldn't allow the time trick to function like that. After all, the hexes declare how many times per day you can affect a target and Time Tricking the witch would undo her action, but it wouldn't affect her target in the slightest. That would be a much better tactic when fighting an enemy witch, however. :)
I haven't read through the other page, so I think I'll have to do that.
Is this the page you were referring to? The only reference to Time Trick I saw was about the term "exhausted."
Then it functions exactly as it is written in the book. For example, if you got fireballed in the face and you used Time Trick on the caster, the fireball spell would return to the caster's memory and all of the damage it dealt would be undone.
On the other hand, if you Time Tricked yourself in that same scenario, all of your actions would be undone, but you wouldn't lose the hit point damage you took because Time Trick only affects its targets' actions. Make sense?
If you have Volume 2 questions, you can just post them in the product thread.
Urbro's Bond: The ability healing was intended to only apply to allies that you have bonded to using the vestigial companion ability. Honestly, if you ignore the "bonded" part you're not going to affect the power of this ability much (if at all) so do with it what you will. Ability point healings count against the total number of times you can be healed by healing surge, however.
Istago's Capstone Empowerment: Please refer me to the rule that says supernatural abilities do not require concentration; this is the first I've head of it. The "concentration" line is part of the duration line of virtually every illusion spell in the game. If it makes it easier for you, the capstone empowerment basically replaces the granted ability's normal duration with 1 minute/level. That's what persistant image does, after all.
Arturius's Dancing Blade: The intent of this ability wasn't to create a sword with the dancing property, but to summon a sword that immediately begins dancing (as the special weapon property). So no, you can't wield the weapon because the moment it comes into existence it starts to dance.
Dagon's Vestigial Companion: The zombie you can create cannot have more Hit Dice than your own –2, as stated in the ability's description. Other then that, you can have any kind of zombie that your GM is willing to let you have.
Vodavox's Major: If it's mind-affecting but ignores the immunities of mindless creatures, what's the point of making it mind-affecting? That spirit isn't one of the text-lite ones. I don't think I could fit any more clauses into its description if I wanted to.
Jayna: I think I gave the walls a duration in the errata. I don't remember, to be frank. Saying they vanish at the end of the pact sounds reasonable to me.
Page 186 in my copy of the Core Rulebook, at least.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.Thanks for the quick response!
That's interesting. Never noticed that line. I'm assuming that it means it doesn't require concentration checks; the alternative is that your abilities with a duration of concentration last forever, which clearly isn't the intent.
Persistant Image doesn't remove the need for concentration checks; it essentially improves the duration to 1 minute per level instead of Concentration + 3 rounds.
I presume that you can allow a suppressed minor granted ability to become active again as a full-round action?
Yes.
How does the feat Expel Spirits (PMUv1 p.30) interact with regards to hostile possession type effects? Effects like ghost’s Malevolence, Possession by devil/demon, outsider or other entity, the Magic Jar or Marionette Possession spells?
Do Occultists or other Pact makers gain bonuses to resist hostile posession? Or are they more susceptible than non-spirit binders?
Expel Spirits doesn't affect a creature's ability to possess an occultist. Ghosts, shadow demons, and the like aren't actually binding themselves to the occultist and these creatures are significantly more powerful than occult spirits in their natural forms. An occult spirit requires that the occultist be willing in order to remained attached onto the occultist's soul and Expel Spirits more or less result in the occultist's ability to exploit his pact to terminate it early. Its sort of like rules lawyering for binders.
Possession, however, isn't a mutually agreed upon process and most of the time, an occultist's opinion on whether or not she should be possessed is not taken into consideration. Occultists are just as susceptible to possession as anyone else, as a result.
I didn't notice any errata on this in the product description thread, so I'd like to ask for clarification here; Young Kiros's Undetectable Presence ability reads, "You become almost impossible to detect with magic. You gain a constant nondetection effect, your alignment cannot be discerned through magical means, and charm and compulsion spells and spell-like abilities. Moreover, spells and spell-like abilities that attempt to read your thoughts are foiled." It's the 'and charm and compulsion spells and spell-like abilities' part that confuses me...is this supposed to be saying that these can't be used to discern your alignment (which I would think would go along with 'magical means'), is it a vestige (ho ho) from some other part of the ability that was later pruned, or am I just not seeing something obvious?
Likely the later. Its been two years so I don't quite remember, but I *think* there was a time when undetectable presence was called something else and offered resistance (or maybe even immunity) to charm and compulsion effects. Since it doesn't make sense, I'd just ignore it for now.