https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fJM8QZm6gWSJSybTTVN6I7B7bKGYC8jK1qsZBii OV6o/edit
Demonstrates this idea nicely.
Improved natural attack would make them one size larger. Most of the time, this just adds one average damage, but it is useful for the claws once you get around level 10, since greater beast totem gives you 1d8 claws, which become 2d6 with this feat (that is 2.5 average DPR from each)
Primary and secondary attacks work a bit like the main hand and off hand in two weapon fighting. While primary attacks are not affected by this, secondary attacks get a -5 penalty to hit rolls and only add half strength. The penalty can be reduced to -2 if you take multiattack (which only requires that you have 3 natural attacks). Now, this is not a problem with this build since everything is primary, so they all hit for all they are worth.
Also note the if you ever add a manufactured weapon into the mix of a full attack, all natural attacks become secondary. While secondary attacks might seem under powered, they can make great additions to classes with bonuses to every hit such as rogue or rangers. Also note that if you only have one natural attack, it will always be primary (no matter the type) and it will deal 1.5 strength damage. Just wielding a weapon does not change this, so that bite attack is often popular with spear users since it gives them decent AoO's upclose.
For natural attacks, the name of the game is getting as many as possible. This allows you to get as many static bonuses from strength, power attack, etc as you can. I would stick with half-orc since they are the only common race with this readily available natural attack. There are only a few feats and items that give natural attacks, so getting a bite for free is fantastic, and well worth the price.
Oh, this is PFS? Well, that is extremely simple then. You have enough already. You see, Natural attacks are advantageous as long as your number of attacks excess the number of iteratives you get if you just used a sword. The classic triple combo of claw/claw/bite you are working with will be more than enough to keep you ahead of the game until level 10, and you will be near retirement by then.
If you do get a 4th natural attack from the Mammoth helm, especially at level 6, then you will frankly dominate that level range with a barbarian. I would go with that over the dwarven helm thing since that would make every other attack secondary, which is a major nerf.
Another item you will want to look into is the Amulet of Mighty fists. It is how you get enhancement bonuses on natural attacks and unarmed strikes. it costs twice as much as a similarly powered weapon, but I mean, it affects all of your attacks. It is worth it. You can also add magical properties like flaming or ghost touch without needing a +1 enhancement bonus first.
Haste will only give you one more attack per round. Your choice on the weapon.
Maybe elemental rage powers? Typically they would be a bit of a waste, but since the AoMF that is needed to enhance your natural attacks is rather expensive, it would just be easier to add your own. You also get to choose the element each time your rage, which could be useful.
Is spell sunder PFS legal? if so, grab it, since the ability to suppress magical effects is great.
And wait, say I get a +1 AoMF. That would make all of my natural attacks act like a +1 weapon?
Yes, the Amulet of mighty fists basically gives its magical properties to all natural attacks or unarmed strikes you have. It is a whole body kind of thing, making everything filled with enhancement bonuses and fire and other good things. That is why it costs twice the usual price, since the number of hits you can expect to get off about the same or more than with TWF (since with all the penalties, your lowest attacks can't do too much usually).
Word of warning: unlike regular weapons, it can only go up to +5 total enhancement bonus, including the cost of properties like flaming or ghost touch. That is kind of why I somewhat lean towards the elemental rage powers. The second power in that chain gives you a selected element throughout the rage, for every melee attack. It means you never have to add it on the AoMF.
I am sure spell sunder is probably legal, but I never like to presume.
Yeah, you can take a weapon focus in just about anything with an attack roll I believe, but it will have limited application obviously.
The main advantage of natural attacks is that every primary attack is at full BAB. That is why power attack is great for them, since you do not have to worry so much about the decreased accuracy. Just wail away and add as many bonuses to your damage as you can. Not sure how furious focus would help you though, since all natural attacks are light weapons, and that feat needs two handing. Was it a prerequisite for another feat?
Not familiar with the races that are allowed in PFS, but if you can select a cat folk, they are worth a consideration. If you can and do go with them, select the racial trait that allows for claws. By second level you will have four claw attacks.
Consider going Urban Barbarian and weapon finesse for a dexterity build. I say this because Catfolk get +2 to their dexterity. This will also increase you AC. It will also be something different and that is always fun.
Items: Agile Amulet of mighty fists. By the way, it is RAW that AoMF stack if one is providing an enhancement bonus and the other is providing a non-enhancement bonus. So you could get an agile AoMF and then a +2 AoMF. I don't know if there is a special PFS rule against this though
Unfortunately, claw attacks do not work that way. The rage power would just increase the power of your claws. Claws on the feet/hind legs tend to be rake attacks, and they are difficult to get working usually. Also, I do not think you can stack AoMF. They both would take up the neck slot, and you only have one of those (except maybe eitans?)
I am always a bit dubious about dex based natural weapon builds. They can work great with rogues, ninjas, and rangers, since they all get a set of bonuses to attacks, but usually you want strength in order to get STR damage on an attack
While an agile AoMF would allow you to use DEX for damage, you are relying heavily on an item that can be sundered or stolen, and more importantly, must be bought before you gain any benefits. Just going by the general Wealth by level, it would take until level 4 before you could scrounge up enough to pay for an Agile AoMF without any enhancement bonus. That would simply put your damage at the same level of a barbarian that used strength and never bought anything.
Plus, the suggested use of Catflok would mean that he would have to find another way to get another natural attack. The two attacks he would have would start to putter out in comparison to other martial classes around level 5, and since you spent everything just to get the agile AoMF, you will be hard pressed to find something to give another natural attack. There is also another advantage to picking half-orc: the favored class bonus gives an additional rage round per level. That is 50% more rage, which means 50% more BATHING IN THE BLOOD OF YOUR ENEMIES! MWUAHAHAHA*cough-hack*
Ah, wait, I was wrong, they are listed as talons typically, if they are meant for direct offense. Here is a comment from a developer in the rules section, for what it is worth. Also, pretty much every thread on the topic in the rules section tend towards the same answer.
You can also compare it to monsters from the bestiaries. Let us take a tiger for example: it has two claws and a rake (which is basically claws for grappling). Birds always have talons since they lack arms. As such, rather than using a hard set rule, I will simply rely on Common law that has been in effect from the D&D eras. It is the safer bet for PFS builds.
Overall, I would not go from the eidolon page too much for these kinds of rulings. A bit too many evolutions for them to decide on making an individual natural attack for each. I think it is more that the language of the eidolon rules specifically allow you to have claws on the hind legs/feet, since it was too much of a bother wording it properly just to make a secondary natural attack people would largely avoid anyway.
Yes, but how much more effective would a biped be at using its legs to attack than a tiger? A tiger would usually rear up on its hind legs for a bite/claw/claw. You could try to justify some type of kicking motion, but that would be a stretch that you could not pull off in PFS.
Still, if attacks on the legs are generally called talons, then you do not receive them from the rage power or the catfolk feat. So unless he is supposed to get two claw attacks per arm (which is not how it works) then he would just get claws with better dice from the rage power.
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An Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Furious enhancement is the way to go, since it is effectively a +2 enhancement for the price of +1. If you really want to go nuts, make it a +2 Furious Courageous AoMF, then when you rage it increases all your morale bonuses by +2, including the bonuses to Strength, Constitution and Will you get from raging. Chug potions of Heroism and you are looking at massive to-hit numbers (for a fairly hefty initial investment of 32K, of course).
When you get up to BAB 6, look at Body Wraps of Mighty Striking; not sure how they would interact with a Furious AoMF, but I think they should work together OK.
I have had good luck with a natural attack-based barbarian in a Skull and Shackles campaign; I took a level of Martial Artist monk to get Dragon Style (the ability to charge through allies and difficult terrain is awesome when you get pounce) and Dragon Ferocity feats faster, along with Feral Combat Training for claws. The availability of the Adopted trait (choosing the aasimar trait that allows NG and True N characters to take monk levels) makes Master of Many Styles monk an option. The improved saves and extra feats made the loss of 1 BAB worth it.
OH! I forgot about that enhancement. It is true, furious is a great property. It allows you to break through the +5 enhancement bonus limit on
AoMS since it costs +1, but provides a +2. A +1 furious AoMF would begins to count as special weapons when dealing with DR (silver and cold iron I believe at +3, and adamantine at +4. You do not have to worry about alignment at +5 too much though. There are more options for counting as an alignment than as a special material)
DR is definitely something you have to watch out for, since you can only count as special materials if you have the enhancement bonus. And unlike 2handed weapons, your DPR comes from many decent attacks rather than a few big ones.
I've done this but I went with a Tengu, 4 attacks at level 2 plus Superstition bonuses throughout.
Yes, but these semantics are important to the rules, since the rage power only grants "claws." If large, sharp objects on your feet are "talons," then there is nothing you can do. In fact, I am fairly certain that you can only gain talons from a couple of polymorph effects.
I may sound like I have a closed mined interpretation here, but I am taking this from the perspective of PFS, which has much more restrictive rules and interpretations than a home game.
I would just go with a strength rating that matches what you have when you aren't raging. That way, you can just use your full bab on the opponents while you wait for them to get in close enough for you to take advantage of full attacks.
You hardly need to devote yourself to it to be better than a rogue after the surprise round. Your full BAB and high strength should make you decent enough. I would personally end up missing the full rage bonuses to both strength and constitution. Plus fast movement, or the use of medium armors without any revelation penalty, is rather nice to have.
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You can't make custom items in PFS, so I can make a "Ring of Mighty Fists". If I'm wearing an AoMF, how can I also wear an Amulet of Natural Armor? Yes, thanks I had forgotten about Ring of Protection and of course a Handy Haversack. As far as the potions, I was talking more about big ticket magical items, not consumables. And ues, a Quick Runner's Shirt is an absolute must buy at level 3.
QuickRunners shirt is a banned item in PFS so you can't have it.
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I've done this but I went with a Tengu, 4 attacks at level 2 plus Superstition bonuses throughout.
I attempted this with a Tengu as well, but I ended up switching to make him a Natural Attack Ranger (Falconer/Yokai Hunter) with a Bird Animal Companion instead.
I was only able to come up with 3 attacks, though. Where'd the 4th one come from? Or was it that helmet that was mentioned earlier?
Look at Deliquescent Gloves to add some energy (Acid) damage to each claw attack.
Deliquescent Gloves
I'll almost certainly pick those up for my Monk and possibly for the Tengu as well, depending on how that character goes. They don't help the bite attack, though.
And possibly Longarm Bracers:
Longarm Bracers
The 3 times a day isn't great, so lots of potions of Enlarge Person might be more economical and more effective.
I made pretty much the exact same character. I based him on Blanca from Street Fighter II, Master-Blaster, and Jet Li's Danny the Dog. The Goblin rogue in the party keeps my character on a leash and I carry him on my shoulders. When he removes the leash I rage.
However rather than going with superstition, spell sunder, and witch hunter I choose to pursue the ability Rending claws, scent, and teamwork feats (pack Attack, out flank). It seemed to work better for the back story of the character and I really like getting buffed and healed. Superstition has too steep a penalty if you ask me.
I've done this but I went with a Tengu, 4 attacks at level 2 plus Superstition bonuses throughout.I attempted this with a Tengu as well, but I ended up switching to make him a Natural Attack Ranger (Falconer/Yokai Hunter) with a Bird Animal Companion instead.
I was only able to come up with 3 attacks, though. Where'd the 4th one come from? Or was it that helmet that was mentioned earlier?
Fiend Totem grants a gore attack [1d8].
I do like Rending Claws. I might have to switch out something for it. I recognize the problems Superstition can cause, but I'd rather deal with that than possibly being turned against my teammates.
What Str bonus do primary natural attacks get, 1x or 1.5x?
x1 but they're all at full bab [tengu] so who cares right!
I do like Rending Claws. I might have to switch out something for it. I recognize the problems Superstition can cause, but I'd rather deal with that than possibly being turned against my teammates.
What Str bonus do primary natural attacks get, 1x or 1.5x?
That is actually a weird thing. You see, when you have your claw/claw/bite they all get 1x since they are all primary. But when you are not raging, and you only have your bite, then special rules kick in. When you only have one natural attack, it will always be primary (excluding when weapons are thrown in), and it will do 1.5x.
Here is the funny thing when you get to level 2 and get your claws: your raging bite may get weaker once you get lesser beast totem. Let's work with 18 strength (its the number I usually work with, and it has cleaner math for this). When you are not raging, you get a +4 STR mod, which become +6 damage. But when you raging, those numbers become +6 STR mod and +9 damage. When you get your claws, your bite will only get 1x STR mod, so your damage will actually not change whether you are raging or not (4 x1.5 = 6 x1). You will still do more damage though, since you can full attack and three times that damage. At a quick glance, the math does not change that much even with your final stats.
I actually find it kind of reassuring. I can still get decent damage when doing a standard attack, so I can save my rage for when I close in on enemies and I can get plenty of full attacks.
Unfortunately, no you cannot have multiple totems. I know, so sad, but it is true. In fact, I vaguely think that that combo might be one of the reasons they made such a rule. Four natural attacks at that level can be devastating
Admittedly, there are ways to get that, but they tend to need specific races such as tengu, or make use of something like the animal fury power (which gives a secondary bite attack, which is far inferior to what you are using, so it was allowed by).
If you are dead set on that kind of appearance... well, you could always take two levels of ranger to get aspect of the beast, and get claws that way. Then you could take fiend totem. Not that great of an idea though, since the benefits end there mostly. The rest of the beast totem is far better than the fiend totem. Plus that would delay all your other juicy rage powers another two levels.
You would also miss out on the natural armor from the second rage power at level 6. But I do suppose that taking out two rage powers does open up room to enjoy things like the superstition line or elemental rage.
The bonuses to each hit with the second elemental power is especially important, since the loss of a bit of strength and smaller size natural attacks will soak up a bit of the extra DPR. Going at it like a rogue or ranger with maximum hits to capitalize on the bonuses to each hit would be good.
Tengu is the way to go imo. I never had an issue with the d3 damage die because you're getting 4 full bab attacks and you'll hit more often.