RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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There are many good reasons to hand a player a pre-generated iconic character. I have my own opinions as to which are the best pre-gen for newbies (Reiko the Ninja) and which are the worst (Amiri the Barbarian), but you might have different opinions, and that's okay.
What I'd like to suggest, as more than a personal opinion, is that we are growing to use the pre-gens more than we ought to. At a couple of conventions and game days in the last couple of months, I've seen people playing a pre-gen that they're not particularly fond of, all the way through 1st level. I've seen potential players run through two or three Beginner Box adventures with pre-gens.
The satisfaction of an enjoyable adventure is magnified considerably when the player has made the character. I think we will be more successful in growing Pathfinder Society if we get more new players to walk out of their first convention, or their first demo, with their own character in their hands. They will want to know what other adventures lie in store for their PC.
So, I ask: for players who are brand new to Pathfinder, what have you found to be the best ways to walk them through character creation? Some people listen to the new player describe what she'd like and then build that for her. Others I've seen walk with the new player through the options. Which approach do you think is better?
Do you walk them through all the core classes and races? Do you explain the differences between a Strength-build fighter and an agility fighter? How do you explain the difference between sorcerers and wizards?
How do you go through feats? Do you pare down the options to a few good choices for them?
What about traits? Factions?
Do you use software, like HeroLab? Or just pencil and paper?
What other advice do you have?
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For players who are gamers but new to Pathfinder, I tend to make them a "pre-gen" based on their description of the type of character they want. I ask for race, class, favored weapon if a martial type, etc. as well as about basic stats (smart vs. dumb, etc.) I then use Hero Labs to bang off a quick character they can start with. With the 1-st level rebuild rules, this means they can modify later but are still playing "their" character right from the start.
At cons we tend to schedule a char-gen session with a quest mini-adventure (Ambush Under Absalom, usually), so people can go through this process and still play in a single slot. At bigger cons, we'll have an HQ table where we can make PCs with the new players. It's staff-intensive since you need an extra GM not running a game, but at cons where you are trying to attract a lot of walk-by traffic or cross-over gamers it can be well worth it.
For people who are brand-new to RPGs, I tend to suggest a Paizo pre-gen that is close to their idea of what they want to play. I get them to change the name to their own PC's name, and then they can "rebuild" it into their own image after the game or between sessions. (Or, I can do it for/with them between sessions.)
One thing I've just started doing is to NOT use pre-printed pregens or Hero Labs sheets, but to fill out the info in pencil on a real character sheet. It gives new players permission to make it their own without needing to cross stuff out or have a messy sheet. Besides, nice as the pre-gen artwork is, it forces you into a perception of what should be in your imagination.
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I'm going through this situation right now, i'm trying to get my gf into pathfinder through PFS. now to preface she was eager to learn and play from the first moment I told her I play D&D.
I found that she really wanted to emulate one of her favorite heroes from a vieo game: Rikku from FFX2. so right now were working on a dual wielding ninja.
so after I told her ninja would be the best fit, we pulled up the only ninja guide on advice. (mainly because i never make rouges and having a reference for her is nice) we saw that the guide gave a str option and a dex/finesse option. I wrote down the stats side by side with what her damage will come out to and such. Then we compared the two, with the strength build she would have to sacrifice AC, another skill, and a little hp so that she could be a half elf. if the went with the dex build she would have to be a human so that she could work "right out of the box". she ended up going with the dex build, which was a smart choice for an inexperienced player. (i would have chosen strenth, but whatever.)
choosing feats was in this case intrinsic to the choice between dex or str fighter (weapon finesse & TWF) fut i think for a first timer the guide should pare them down... allot.
traits and factions should be picked by the player, simply just reading all of them would be fine seeing as the lists are fairly short (apg only). that is if they have time, if there at a con and, i would just pare the choices down. factions on the other hand are based so much on flavor that the player really needs to chose it on there own.
Pen and paper. I feel hero lab is a crutch for new players, and should only be used by veterans. "you have to know the rules before you break them" is an old cinematography saying and i feel it lends itself to this situation very well.
I think if a player has an idea for a character, even if its a harebrained one, you should try and make it work, even if it is'nt as "viable" and a more optimized build. we want new players to have an emotional attachment to there first character. my first character that i truly loved was a paladin of pharasma i made for a home game. I did my best to emulate ghost rider, and it worked perfectly. mwk full plate with a black and silver "skeleton" motif, continual flame cast on my helmet,a spiked chain, and an artifact that let me summon a nightmare-esque mount. it was the coolest thing in the whole world, and i was playing him. ohhhhh the feels.s
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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meeko makes a good point. There's a big difference between a curious fellow who has played 3.5 and 4th edition D&D, and his colleague who has only played some Neverwinter Nights video games.
I had in mind the latter. At Origins, I met a mom and her two kids (son going into 7th grade, daughter going into 4th grade) all new to tabletop RPGs. The son wanted to play a weather wizard, and the girl wanted to play a gnome druid with an owl companion.
(Mom was against owls. "But mom, they eat mice!" "Yes, and then leave mouse parts strewn around." Girl was undaunted.)
In this case, it only took a few seconds to put a tweak in pre-gen Ezren (swap out burning hands for shocking grasp) and Lini, but maybe the boy's vision would have been better fulfilled by a sorcerer with the stormborn bloodline.
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf
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I have to really disagree on Hero Lab, the beginner box Hero Lab version is ideal for new players. If they have the time before the slot, letting them pick the limited choices the BB Hero lab offers, and letting it do the math gives them the power to make an entertaining combination! Pen and paper is overwhelming for brand new players. Most players are more comfortable with reading and working on a laptop, and can get the job done.
Most of the time, I ask them to conceptualize a heroic trope. Think of a hero or heroine you like, from any genre. What do you like about them? Then they build from there. After we flesh out why they are a hero, then we start character creation. I stay away froma. Single rule until they have that together.
If they buy into why they are a hero, it is easy to get them to love the game as much as I do.
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Agreed that getting their buy-in is the most important part. I usually ask if they have a favorite character from a movie or TV show. Legolas, Jack sparrow, Han Solo are good examples and fairly easy to build Even Worf or Spiderman can be sketched out pretty quickly (this has come back to bite when they ask about a cartoon or video game I don't know).
I also make a couple changes to pre-gens then spend the scenario explaining some of the other options (If you had selective channeling here... or power attack against these guys...). This is especially helpful when experienced players* pull off something that is cool to the newbie (players are always glad to explain their character's awesome-sauce :) Then at the end of the scenario I will go over some of their thoughts in more detail. 'Tis a lot easier after a session than before, especially with the level 1 rebuild rule.
*I do ask players go into their descriptions more heavily when there is a newbie at the table than when it is just the regulars playing. Again players are usually happy to expand on their characters and it gives a greater sense of the variety available to a new player: race, class, nationality, weapons, castings, etc..
A success story on the pre-gen.
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I have to really disagree on Hero Lab, the beginner box Hero Lab version is ideal for new players. If they have the time before the slot, letting them pick the limited choices the BB Hero lab offers, and letting it do the math gives them the power to make an entertaining combination! Pen and paper is overwhelming for brand new players. Most players are more comfortable with reading and working on a laptop, and can get the job done.
Most of the time, I ask them to conceptualize a heroic trope. Think of a hero or heroine you like, from any genre. What do you like about them? Then they build from there. After we flesh out why they are a hero, then we start character creation. I stay away froma. Single rule until they have that together.
If they buy into why they are a hero, it is easy to get them to love the game as much as I do.
I've only perused through a friend's hero lab to see how it felt, so I was honestly basing my opinion off of that one experience, which looking back seems a bit narrow minded. You make a fair point, if its easier for them to get a character going then yea, go for it, more power to them. however if I'm faced with helping a new player start, ill be dong most of the generating, and thus using books.
I'm only 20 but i was brought into D&D by older gentlemen, so Im sure that heavily influences my thought on this subject.
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I went through this experience twice now, with two different approaches being taken. I think both worked for each player, but know that each player had a different background.
Before I get into the details, a quick summary: For players new to RPGs, leading the character creation (entirely or almost entirely) seems best. For those who have history with RPGs (even if it's old), they'll prefer partial hand-holding deep-dive on the character creation process, building it themselves. This is what I found.
The first player was my gf, who needed a character for the home game I started. She was new to RPGs, but had played the D&D boardgames and understood the typical "tropes", mostly. She's got a wacky, creative sense of humour, and told me she wanted to play the Travelocity Gnome. Taking her basic description, I created for her a Gnome Wizard who specialized in Teleportation and gave her character a custom profession of Profession (Travel Agent). This worked great. Not only is she mechanically geared for teleportation spells at high levels, but she roleplays as a travel agent, trying to sell travel packages to every NPC she sees. It's hilarious!
The second player I walked through had played 2nd Edition D&D, and had rough familiarity with core mechanics (having read 3.0, but never played). he wanted to get into PFS, specifically, as he had no group to play regularly with. Although it took some time, I had the time. So we walked through the race and class options for the Core Rulebook and the APG. He opted to play a (to me) unique mix, a Dwarf Witch, and was able to use that odd choice to build out a backstory for himself. It was great to watch the creative process happen for him, and great for me in that he also threw some interesting "curve-ball" questions that I had to look up.
So... Short of it is, it depends on the player. Probably always will, so just try and be flexible.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf
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The other good thing about hero lab is follow up. If they have something to extend an experience they will be back for a game.
They can download the software for beginner box free. Many in our demographic would download a free piece of software to play an RPG. Once they play making characters a little, its not hard to buy a core rulebook for $10, and showing up at the local FLGS for a game and more loot.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm not sure that it's a good idea to use the Beginner Box for anything beyond the purposes for which it's intended. In particular, if I were building a character for Pathfinder Society, I would never use the Beginner Box ruleset (or Green Ronin's "Warriors & Warlocks" ruleset, or D&D 3.5, or anything else that's pretty close to Pathfinder)