I rolled a Sylph Oracle of the Wind Mystery for my group, and I had a few questions as to how these spells interact with each other, if at all.
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Scenario:
Oracle Lv 4 - 2 Rounds of Casting
Cast Gusting Sphere (School evocation [air]; Level 2)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect 5-ft.-diameter sphere of air
Duration 1 round/level (4 Rounds)
Saving Throw Fort negates (object) or Reflex negates; see text; Spell Resistance yes
A swirling ball of wind rolls in whichever direction you point, hurling those it strikes with great force. The sphere is treated in all ways as an area of severe wind, applying a –4 penalty on ranged weapon attacks that pass through it. The sphere moves 30 feet per round. As part of this movement, it can ascend or jump up to 30 feet to strike a target. If it enters a space containing a Medium or smaller creature, it stops moving for that round and generates a sharp thrust of wind to bull rush the creature. The sphere's CMB for bull rush combat maneuvers uses your caster level in place of its base attack bonus, with a +2 bonus for its Strength score (14). Whether or not the bull rush is successful, the creature takes 1d6 points of nonlethal bludgeoning damage from the attack. If the bull rush fails, the creature is still subject to the severe winds from the sphere as long as they remain in the same square as it. A gusting sphere rolls over objects or barriers that are less than 4 feet tall.
The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest. A gusting sphere immediately dissipates if it exceeds the spell's range.
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So after I create the sphere (which I'm assuming it's in the space in front of my character) I use my move-action to move the sphere as enters an enemy's space, they make a CMD check against the sphere's +6 CMB to determine a bull rush. Both successful and failure, either way it deals 1d6 nonlethal. If the bull rush is unsuccessful, they stay in the same space under the effects of Severe Winds (50mph wind). Where's the FORT / Reflex save come in?
Assuming the bull rush from the sphere is successful, the enemy is knocked back 5 feet (or more). Is the Gusting-Sphere-object subject to other wind effects? For example, let's say the sphere is now in between me and the enemy. It's now Round 2. I cast Gust of Wind (2) as my standard action towards the enemy and sphere. Being that the Gust of Wind is a 60 Ft line of Severe Wind, does it blast the sphere right back onto the enemy? Is the Gusting Sphere affected by the Gust of Wind? If so, does it bring about another bull rush attack and another 1d6 non lethal dmg? Or does it have to be moving and then hit the enemy space again?
I wanted to play with the idea that while the enemy was under the effects of the severe wind from the Gusting Sphere (a failed bull rush), then add the additional wind speed from the Gust of Wind, maybe reach hurricane force winds (which would be pretty cool because then one could blow away medium sized targets 1d4 X 10 feet back for 1d4 dmg per 10 feet.) However this might not work as a ball of swirling air doesn't add to the speed of a gust of wind. Would love to hear a way to make it work though.
Thoughts on the theory behind this would be great!
Casting Animate Thread...
Three years and nobody has answered anything about this spell. I was just looking over it myself tonight. I like the idea of variant versions of existing spells, such as this (as a variant to Flaming Sphere), which have different effects appropriate to a different element or what have you.
As the OP stated, Gusting Sphere states that it offers objects and a Fortitude save, and creatures get a Reflex save, both saves negate the spell, with a "see below" notation. Absolutely nowhere in the description of the spell is there any mention of saving throws. As well there should not be, as the primary effect of the spell is based around applying a combat maneuver to a target.
So, how to the saves come into play? Do they negate the damage? If so, why bother mentioning objects, as they are immune to non-lethal damage? Does it negate the Bull Rush? If so, this is super crappy for a level 2 spell. Roll a mediocre combat maneuver to see if the Bull Rush has any effect, then offer them a save against said combat maneuver? If we were comparing this to Flaming Sphere, it would be like forcing an attack roll with the sphere prior to offering the target a save.
What do these saves negate?
Defenestrating sphere from 3.5 is my favorite spell. Ever. Which mandated I check this thread.
Belefauntes, I congratulate your necromantic mastery.
I'm a bit more . . . liberal, I guess you'd say, in how I apply the tactical rules in d20 systems. As such, I wouldn't have any problem with the gust of wind pushing the gusting sphere toward the enemy. However, I believe that the spell description, in and of itself, does a completely sufficient job of explaining why that "shouldn't" happen:
The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it
So, rules being the be-all-end-all, as many advocate: it's a no-go.
And, flavor being flavor: interaction between magical effects (especially when generated and controlled by the same spellcaster) is a fine idea.
Furthermore, when you get right down to the brass tacks, even attempting this is close to outright wasteful. Two standard actions and two second-level spell slots for near-inconsequential results is pretty inefficient.
But, to answer your actual question: I think the saving throw entry is simply a formatting error. Nothing in the spell's description text calls for either save, and the only effects allowed for in the description text have nothing at all to do with either type of save.
Sorry for the late reply, Syrus.
The way you illustrate it is how I feel it should work. Move it into a target square and attempt a bull rush against the occupant. No save.
Alternatively, if a save were to apply, it should only be reflex. Move it into a target square and the occupant must attempt a reflex save or be shunted 5' and take some nonlethal damage. Save each round the sphere occupies the target's space.
Personally, I prefer the combat maneuver check. It makes it just that much more different than the flaming sphere.
Thanks for your input!
Happy to!
Apologies for my own late reply: I checked in a few times after the day I posted that, but I didn't give you enough time!
To continue the line of thinking presented by gusting sphere/defenestrating sphere, I submit the following for your perusal:
spheresofpower.wikidot.com
Particularly, the Destruction sphere, and the following talents: Air Blast and Guided Blast. Air Blast alone has good potential, but if you're wanting to go "bowling for bad guys", choosing the direction they are thrown is priceless.
:)
I rolled a Sylph Oracle of the Wind Mystery for my group, and I had a few questions as to how these spells interact with each other, if at all.
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Scenario:Gusting Sphere:Oracle Lv 4 - 2 Rounds of CastingCast Gusting Sphere (School evocation [air]; Level 2)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect 5-ft.-diameter sphere of air
Duration 1 round/level (4 Rounds)
Saving Throw Fort negates (object) or Reflex negates; see text; Spell Resistance yesA swirling ball of wind rolls in whichever direction you point, hurling those it strikes with great force. The sphere is treated in all ways as an area of severe wind, applying a –4 penalty on ranged weapon attacks that pass through it. The sphere moves 30 feet per round. As part of this movement, it can ascend or jump up to 30 feet to strike a target. If it enters a space containing a Medium or smaller creature, it stops moving for that round and generates a sharp thrust of wind to bull rush the creature. The sphere's CMB for bull rush combat maneuvers uses your caster level in place of its base attack bonus, with a +2 bonus for its Strength score (14). Whether or not the bull rush is successful, the creature takes 1d6 points of nonlethal bludgeoning damage from the attack. If the bull rush fails, the creature is still subject to the severe winds from the sphere as long as they remain in the same square as it. A gusting sphere rolls over objects or barriers that are less than 4 feet tall.
The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest. A gusting sphere immediately dissipates if it exceeds the spell's range.
So after I create the sphere (which I'm assuming it's in the space in front of my character) I use my move-action to move the sphere as enters an enemy's space, .... Where's the FORT / Reflex save come in?
What does the spell Gusting Sphere do?
1) apply a penalty to attacks2) move as directed
3) make a bull rush vs. CMD
4) Apply 1d6 nonlethal damage
What can be saved against?
Wind Wall applies a penalty to things going through it with no save. Many spells apply environmental penalties without a save. This spell likely does the same. That takes out #1.
Movement does no damage or penalty, so needs no save or attack. That takes out #2.
Most spells use an attack roll or a saving throw. This is an attack roll. That takes out #3.
Spell damage often is saved for half or for negate. This makes sense.
I think RAI is that the save apples to the damage.
Note: with the Range: Medium, you can have it spawn in any square within range, saving an initial move into a square.
/cevah
The saving throw entry is the same as it is for flaming sphere. If you succeed at the save, the sphere does not affect you that round - as per flaming sphere.
Spells can and do interact (spiked pit + wall of iron = sad boss) and they even affect their environments. Cold damage can freeze surface water, non-instantaneous fire effects set things ablaze, and the flaming sphere is described as having a 'spongy twinky consistency' so there's no reason it should be immune to a gust of wind spell.
However, 5' diameter just screams to me to treat it as a medium sized creature with a strength of 14. All it's going to do is be checked by the gust, not blown along by it. That means you can't move towards the caster (you) with your move action control of the sphere without also making a 13 on a d20 to get it to roll this direction. The interaction seems pretty clear there.