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Holy vindicator says...
Vindicator’s Shield (Su)
A vindicator can channel energy into his shield as a standard action; when worn, the shield gives the vindicator a sacred bonus (if positive energy) or profane bonus (if negative energy) to his Armor Class equal to the number of dice of the vindicator’s channel energy. This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the vindicator is struck in combat, whichever comes first. The shield does not provide this bonus to any other wielder, but the vindicator does not need to be holding the shield for it to retain this power.
FAQ
The holy vindicator prestige class has an ability that gives him a sacred bonus to AC until "struck in combat." Does a touch attack count as being "struck"? What about a spell like magic missile or fireball?
The ability lasts until an opponent makes a successful attack roll against the vindicator's Armor Class.
–Sean K Reynolds (11/24/10)
My player is stating that by taking versatile channel, he can enchant his shield with a sacred bonus and then channel negative energy and gain a profane bonus on his shield at the same time, almost doubling the bonus (with a -2). It seems that by RAW, this works, but it seems abusive and I am surprised no one has thought of this that I've seen.
Thoughts?
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It's not an unreasonable houserule to say it doesn't work like that. You can fluff it as the opposed energies interfere with each other.
Also, make sure it's even a legal feat for him to have. Only neutral aligned channelers of neutral gods can take it. Everyone else is locked into the positive/negative choice they made at 1st level.
He has to give up 2 stand actions to make it work and one hit undoes all of it, and he loses that channel for other purposes. It is not really a good idea.
Action economy is very powerful in the game and he is wasting it. Yeah I know it last 24 hours in theory so he could do it out of combat but one lucky roll from a minion and that bonus is gone.
He would still be a more effective as a full cleric than by multiclassing overall so I would not mind. Well that assumes he knows how to get a good utility out of a cleric.
also:
Note:This feat only applies to necromancers, neutral clerics who worship neutral deities, or neutral clerics who do not worship a deity—characters who have the channel energy class ability and have to make a choice to channel positive or negative energy at 1st level. Clerics whose alignment or deity makes this choice for them cannot select this feat.
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Generally another use of the exact same ability cannot provide more of a bonus if the bonuses are untyped.
Given that when the Prestige Class was made there wasn't any reasonable way to both have that ability as well as the ability to channel positive and negative energy to any useful degree I see this as something you should just tell your player not to do. It's a large investment for not much gain. A trap that they are falling into and you should help them see that.
yeah, he worships a lawful neutral Deity. Yeah, it works by RAW, i'm just gonna have to pick on him with touch attacks. but still, the sacred and profane bonuses add to touch AC. thanks for the input, i'll take it under advisement.
Well if you are going to do that I would just tell him no, if you will do it all the time. Otherwise ignore my comment. :)
You're the GM right? What's the problem here? If you don't agree with what is proposed and I think RAI is very much a factor as is RAW, tell him only one bonus type applies and move on. It doesn't matter if he sticks to his guns, it's YOUR game.
You're the GM right? What's the problem here? If you don't agree with what is proposed and I think RAI is very much a factor as is RAW, tell him only one bonus type applies and move on. It doesn't matter if he sticks to his guns, it's YOUR game.
It actually works by RAW and RAI(until a dev says otherwise anyway). It is one of those things that looks good on paper, but it has diminishing returns. .
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B0sh1. I'm aware that it's my game, thanks. My question was what others thought of the idea. Seeking the input of other individuals before making MY decision is wise, not weak.
Wraithstrike: Yeah, I'll just let him do it if he wont listen to reason I agree, he's wasting a lot of channels doing that.
The title of your thread lead me to believe you already had your opinion that the player was trying to lay on some cheese. I may of been harsh in my response but the point stands. Ultimately, if you're OK with it, fine but I do think RAI is there should only be one bonus type applied.
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I personally would house rule that no one can benefit simultaneously from both a Sacred and a Profane bonus. Only the higher bonus would apply.
It makes more sense to me to treat them both as a Divine bonus, with the two separate names only delineating whether the source of the bonus is good or evil in origin.
Not to mention that one attack goes off and he loses both bonuses. Its a monstrous AC benefit ... against one attack that basically requires two turns to pull off. And you're giving up two Channel Energies to do it. Doesn't sound worth it to me.