Command Undead feat to channel energy from different sources


Rules Questions


If I have channeling from different sources, for example from taking cleric levels and Adept Channel feat, and I have the Command Undead feat, is the undead controlling limit for channeling separate for each channel or are they calculated together?


The Adept Channel feat is for nonclerics and class features don't stack across classes unless they say they. As an example evasion does not stack, but uncanny, and being an adept does not grant virtual cleric levels, so even if they did stack you would just use your cleric levels, not your cleric levels for the purpose of channel.

PS:Multiclassing casters is generally not going to be in your favor.


You have to be able to cast divine spells in order to take Adept Channel, and if a cleric could get a familiar, then they could take the Adept Channel feat? The Command Undead feat applies to channeling from both cleric levels and the adept channel feat, I was just wondering if this means I can get channel undead HD from two sources, if the HD limits stack, or if they merge into 2 additional channels for the cleric.


Well a cleric could get it if he had a familiar sure, but the intent is not for clerics so it might require an FAQ for the channels.

As for command undead it doe not go by how many cleric levels you have for the purpose of channeling. It only references actual cleric levels.


So does that mean I can use channel energy from any source to power command undead, but it still functions as if it was used from the clerical channeling? It says only that I must use, "one of my channel negative energy" attempts


partyrico wrote:
So does that mean I can use channel energy from any source to power command undead, but it still functions as if it was used from the clerical channeling? It says only that I must use, "one of my channel negative energy" attempts

I would rule it that way, just to keep things simple but I am curious as to how your cleric is qualifying for this.


I was just thinking on the idea, I don't think it would be possible unless you either qualified with an animal companion (animal/feather domain, scalykind domain), dipped a level into say, sorcerer (false focus with the false priest would be ideal for creating undead and arcane for the familiar) possibly even going cross blooded and getting another bonus from undead or sylvan, or if elditrch heritage qualifies, but adept channel specifically states from class ability.


It really does not help you control undead so I would not go through all that trouble. What you could do is take extra channel if you want extra channels. :)


Extra channel doesn't help control undead though, the point of getting channel from two sources is so that your control undead cap from channeling negative energy is effectively doubled. The limit on controlled undead is 4HD/level with animate undead (6 for juju oracles), then 1 creature with each casting of control undead (1 day/level), and 1 HD/level through channeling, and I was wondering if having more than one channel source would allow, say, 1HD/level from one then 1HD/level from the other, which is better for controlling intelligent undead or burning/bloody skeletons since they count as twice as much HD for the animate undead cap.


I see what you were trying to do now. Well you have to "legally" get the familiar first. If your GM allows that he will probably allow you to use the other channel as a 2nd pseudo-cleric to get more undead.

Have you looked at the Juju Oracle?


Yea, it allows for the 6HD/level, I was thinking that, plus the command undead through the revelation right below it. If the eldritch heritage qualifies then I can use that to get adept channel eventually, plus with ancient lorekeeper, I can actually get blood money and command undead onto the oracle spell list, then possibly get paragon surge to pop the second chain of eldritch heritage to spontaneously add wizard/sorcerer spells to the oracle list.


That eldritch Heritage would not work unless the GM felt like being nice.


If I use UMD on a ring of revelation to get command undead and channeling from both the bones and juju mystery, do these HD stack, or are they separate, or do they not add together?


They overlap, which is to say they do not stack.

What you can do is cast desecrate. It is only a 2nd level spell IIRC.

Quote:
Furthermore, anyone who casts animate dead within this area may create as many as double the normal amount of undead (that is, 4 HD per caster level rather than 2 HD per caster level).

That is a good way to double your undead without feats and trying to dip classes.


The command undead feat lets you control undead equal to your level through your channeling. This feat allows you to pull some undead out of the limit of undead controlled through animate dead, as you can only have 4HD/level undead controlled through animate dead (6HD/level with juju). I want to get multiple sources of channelling so that each source can control an additional 1HD/level (as per the command undead feat for channeling).


I know what you are trying to do, but it seems to be overkill, and not worth the effort, even if it is possible by some means.

6HD per level would go up to 12 for a juju oracle.

So at level 7 you have 84 hit die of undead under your command. That might be more than the 3.5 Dread Necromancer.


Well under the command undead feat, the amount of undead controlled through it is only equal to your level, not 6HD/level. Theoretically the life oracles' channel, the channel from bones, the channel from juju, the amount from animate dead (with the bonus from juju) would allow 63HD (plus any under control from the command undead spell, which doesn't have a limit on HD but is measured in days/level)


You are correct about the command undead feat. It is used to control undead you happen to run into, or undead that you create, but are not able to control due to you having reached your limit.

Is there a reason why you won't want to use the desecrate + juju oracle combo?


Desecrate allows double the amount of dead to be created with animate dead, not controlled. The DM doesn't throw high HD monsters at us yet, but desecrate is on my spell list. However regardless or the amount raised with animate dead, animate dead can control 6HD/level with the juju oracle ability. This is nice but I was looking for other ways to increase that limit, such as other methods of controlling undead.

So if the animate dead can hold 6HD/level (42 at level 7) then command undead feat with the ability to channel would add another 7HD with that channel, would getting channel from other sources also individually have a cap of 7HD with those channels? Or would the HD caps merge into 14? Or would they not affect each other and the channel limit would remain 7HD?


PRD wrote:


ANIMATE DEAD
School necromancy [evil]; Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead)
Range touch
Targets one or more corpses touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies that obey your spoken commands.

The undead can be made to follow you, or they can be made to remain in an area and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the place. They remain animated until they are destroyed. A destroyed skeleton or zombie can't be animated again.

Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can't create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit.

Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.

Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a physical anatomy.

edit: Ignore. I misread what you wrote.


partyrico wrote:

Desecrate allows double the amount of dead to be created with animate dead, not controlled. The DM doesn't throw high HD monsters at us yet, but desecrate is on my spell list. However regardless or the amount raised with animate dead, animate dead can control 6HD/level with the juju oracle ability. This is nice but I was looking for other ways to increase that limit, such as other methods of controlling undead.

So if the animate dead can hold 6HD/level (42 at level 7) then command undead feat with the ability to channel would add another 7HD with that channel, would getting channel from other sources also individually have a cap of 7HD with those channels? Or would the HD caps merge into 14? Or would they not affect each other and the channel limit would remain 7HD?

Command Undead goes by cleric levels so getting other channels would not help you. It would remain at 7.


Ah yes, I see that now thanks. On a similar note, does the undead lord feat actually increase the amount of undead able to be controlled through animate dead, or just the amount able to be raised at once.


Undead Master treats you as you are 4 level higher for the purpose of the animate dead spell.

-->It changes the total amount. You dont have to raise them all at once.

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