Greater Invisibility, Stealth and the Ninja


Rules Questions


People here were very helpful with another question so I'm back, trying to break something else and get myself in trouble.

I have a 10th level Drow Ninja I'm putting together. He has +20 to stealth. I'm looking to make him invisible and stealthy on all attacks so I can get the 5d6 extra sneak attack damage. So I'm thinking that I use a Wand of Invisibility, Greater, so that I can be stealthy, and invisible, and stay that way (invisible) when I attack.

What I need help is convincing my GM that what I'm doing is legal. I need to know how the rolls and rules work. I start off with +20 in stealth, then add my d20 roll. Or do I use the wand first? It gives me a +40 bonus to stealth if I'm not moving, and +20 if I am moving.

So let's say I use the wand first, so now for 10 rounds I'm invisible, and moving. So I get a +20 bonus to stealth. I get +20 from my skills. So before I roll my d20, I'm +40? Assume I get a 10. So I'm invisible, and +50 stealth.

Now I attack, and get my sneak attack damage. At this point, where am I on the stealth meter? I'm still invisible. Do I take a -20 to stealth for attacking, putting me at 30? Is 30 still stealthy enough, along with invisibility, that I can request sneak attack damage for my next attack?

Guidance, suggestions, tips, and anything else useful (including a slap in the head if I'm missing something obvious) would be appreciated. You guys are far more experienced than I and I'm hoping you'll have some suggestions on how best to maximize the damage.


First off if your a 10th level ninja get vanishing trick and invisible blade ninja tricks

It's a swift action and your invisible for 10 rounds for one ki point...that should save you some money

Also as long as your opponent doesn't have anything that negates Sneak Attack (uncanny dodge or can see through invisibility) then you get SA on every attack

If your only using it to get sneak attack then your stealth roll doesn't even matter...only worry about that if you are actually trying to sneak past them for positioning or bypassing someone entirely

If you would like more suggestions post your full build when it's completed on here or PM me


I second the Invisible Blade and put forth a strong recommendation for Flurry of Stars. If you're in melee and SA someone, they have a chance to pinpoint you. Flurry from 10' away and you remove that chance. Put Distance and a Bane enchantment if your choice and you increase your mobility and damage. Do you like 7d6 on all four of your shuriken attacks? I thought you might... ;)


Thanks for those great suggestions. When you say "post your full build", how would I do that? I'm using Hero Lab's program to build the character. Or, if you mean post various stats, etc., is there an example you can point me to so I post what you want to see without cluttering it up, or, at least I post it in a sensible order.

The GM and the rest of us are meeting tonight to go over the campaign. I need to decide between this Drow Ninja and a Drow Noble Sorcerer. Decisions, decisions...


Full build is your characters statblock but a list if his attributes and feats/ninja tricks would be good enough

Many people will give opinions on what's "better" from a mechanics stand point...but if you want to take something else or use a different weapon for flavor reasons go for it


Okay, so a question about shurikens. They have an effective range of 10'. Is there anything I can take that will increase the range that I can throw them? I have Deadly Range, but that's not gonna' do much unless I can find a way to toss the shurikens further. Suggestions?


Joex The Pale wrote:
  Put Distance and a Bane enchantment...

;)

Doubles range, I believe.


Zsz'zen wrote:
So let's say I use the wand first, so now for 10 rounds I'm invisible, and moving. So I get a +20 bonus to stealth. I get +20 from my skills. So before I roll my d20, I'm +40? Assume I get a 10. So I'm invisible, and +50 stealth.

Take the Skill Mastery advanced rogue talent and you get +50 with no need to ever roll dice unless you want to try for higher than taking 10. Not that you SHOULD take Skill Mastery, it's nice but there are other very nice talents to choose from, for instance Invisible Blade, as was mentioned. Take the Stealthy and Skill Focus (Stealth) feats and get a +60 all together.

Zsz'zen wrote:
Now I attack, and get my sneak attack damage. At this point, where am I on the stealth meter? I'm still invisible. Do I take a -20 to stealth for attacking, putting me at 30? Is 30 still stealthy enough, along with invisibility, that I can request sneak attack damage for my next attack?

You can't be using Stealth and attacking at the same time. When you attack, you Stealth roll becomes null. Additionally, when you attack a creature with a melee weapon it knows what square you are attacking from, even if you're invisible the whole time. But it only knows your square until you move out of that square. It knows where the attack came from but won't know if you move out of that square after the attack.

What you can do, is approach your target with a d20+40 Stealth in one round. In the next round take a full attack against your target and take a 5' step away from your target while rolling a new Stealth check. Your target will know what square you attacked from but will have no idea you moved out of that square or where you moved to. If he attacks that square he will hit nothing and will not know if he is hitting nothing because you moved or because he just missed the invisible target. The dificulty is getting into possition to take a full round attack on the following turn. Spring Attack would be a decent idea for this family of tactics too.

Zsz'zen wrote:
You guys are far more experienced than I and I'm hoping you'll have some suggestions on how best to maximize the damage.

What weapon style are you planning on and is that plan flexible? What I mean is, Ranged or Melee? If Melee: single weapong, two weapon fighting, or two handed weapon? Also what Ninja tricks and feats are you planning for?

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