Repositioning Tactics / Flowing Monk


Advice


I did a lot of searching and couldn't really find a good thread about this.

I'm looking at a Flowing Monk, but as I'm planning feats and such I'm having trouble totally understanding the use of Reposition. Is the idea to try to move enemies close enough to team mates that they can use a full attack? Or I guess move it far enough away that it can't full attack anyone else except you (which also keeps your allies from full attacking I suppose). I'm sure there are other times when positioning is important but it seems like it may be a little too situational for the intense combat maneuver feet "requirements" (I know they're not required but they make a big difference.)

Regarding the Flowing Monk's ability Redirection - if an enemy attacks you, does repositioning accomplish anything besides trying to get it closer for someone to make a full attack?

Once you hit level 4 and can use Redirection as an immediate action on an enemy you threaten that attacks an ally, does the immediate action take effect before the enemy's attack, so you could reposition it out of range to actually get its attack on your ally? Or is that too good to be true? ;)


Using a Reposition when the enemy attacks you can't really do a whole lot except maybe cancel a flank. When you use it in response to someone attacking an ally at level 4+, it can totally cancel the attack in progress if you reposition him out of reach of your ally.

Beyond that, take a look at how sweet Greater Reposition is--free AoOs for your whole team. Pretty awesome, and ultimately, more useful than the Trip (Trip is only valuable at low levels).


mplindustries wrote:

Using a Reposition when the enemy attacks you can't really do a whole lot except maybe cancel a flank. When you use it in response to someone attacking an ally at level 4+, it can totally cancel the attack in progress if you reposition him out of reach of your ally.

Beyond that, take a look at how sweet Greater Reposition is--free AoOs for your whole team. Pretty awesome, and ultimately, more useful than the Trip (Trip is only valuable at low levels).

I definitely see the value of Greater Reposition, but I'm having trouble seeing how it is more valuable than Greater Trip. With Greater Trip my allies and I all make AoOs but with Greater Reposition it's just my allies. I think there must be another benefit or I'm just severely underestimating the uses of moving enemies around.

Also, at higher levels I would have thought Reposition loses value if you're facing larger and stronger enemies. I'm pretty new though and I haven't done any high level play yet so I'm not speaking from any experience. I know with some higher level encounters trip runs into some problems because some monsters are un-trippable because they fly, etc. Are there less monsters "immune" to repositioning?


Greater Trip only gives an AoO to allies that are threatening it right now. With Reposition, you can drag them around so that your allies don't have to be so perfectly positioned to get the AoOs.

And yes, enemies are "immune" to trip earlier than they are to Reposition, but honestly, all Combat Maneuvers become worthless late in the game except maybe Grapple and Dirty Trick. They just become worthless at different rates.


I play a flowing monk. Reposition is very useful in certain cases.

Repositioning an enemy so you and an ally can flank. Repositioning an enemy so they are no longer backed against a wall. Repositioning an enemy so they can no longer block the door you're trying to fight your way through. Repositioning so they are no longer blocking the hallway (A flowing monk can keep 5 ft adjust forward, reposition behind them, let ally's finish off, and keep moving defenders like this until they run out of repositions).

Another use is positioning enemies where your allies can use their special abilities. For example, if someone has charge and the ability to knock people back, you can reposition someone next to a ledge, then ally knocks them off.

Again, it's not something you can use every time, but it does come in handy. It's one of those abilities that's of limited use except when it's useful and then it's really really useful.

Oh, and it's also easier to reposition than trip some creatures, like wolves, or things that are immune to trip like snakes.


mplindustries wrote:

Greater Trip only gives an AoO to allies that are threatening it right now. With Reposition, you can drag them around so that your allies don't have to be so perfectly positioned to get the AoOs.

A ha! I see what you're saying - that's what I should have realized but hadn't figured out yet.

mdt wrote:
Repositioning so they are no longer blocking the hallway

Ah, good example! I can think of a scenario I played where that would have been really useful.

mplindustries wrote:
all Combat Maneuvers become worthless late in the game except maybe Grapple and Dirty Trick. They just become worthless at different rates.

That's another concern I've had as I've been brainstorming this. What's plan B for being useful when combat maneuvers aren't working? I'm planning on trying to get Crane Style/Wing and Deflect Arrows to mitigate some damage, and then I guess my attack bonuses would be decent since I'm building them for CMB anyway - is part of the issue that CMD scales faster than AC, so even if maneuvers start to be hard to make I should still be able to hit reasonably effectively?

EDIT:
Got a bit more concrete in my planning now.

For PFS:
STR 17
DEX 14
CON 12 (I hate going this low)
INT 13
WIS 14
CHA 8

Feats:
1: Crane Style
1 (Human): Dodge
1 (Bonus): Improved Reposition
3: Step Up (to stay close enough for Redirection)
5: Crane Wing
6 (Bonus): Deflect Arrow
7: Combat Expertise (Lame, I know, but I want Greater Repos.)
9: Greater Reposition
11: Haven't thought that far yet. Plus I think only one PFS character gets to play at level 11? I probably wouldn't choose this guy.


Sage Maduin wrote:
What's plan B for being useful when combat maneuvers aren't working?

Smartass answer: don't be a monk.

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