Between their paltry abilities and severe water dependence, the Azlanti Gillmen from page 188 of the Advanced Race Guide (and page 310 of the Inner Sea World Guide) are not very useful as an alternate Player Character Race. While this is fine for an NPC race, if they are to be used as a possible player character, I feel that they need to be better balanced.
Gillmen are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice. All gillmen have the following racial traits.
o Height: As Human
o Weight: As Human
o Starting Age: As Half-Elf
o Age Categories: As Half-Elf
I figure that the race could keep all the flavor text from the ARG.
This actually looks pretty good, aside from the 8 RP build. Am I counting right? Throw in a skill bonus. Bonus points for it not obviously steering a player towards a specific character class.
This actually looks pretty good, aside from the 8 RP build. Am I counting right? Throw in a skill bonus. Bonus points for it not obviously steering a player towards a specific character class.
Yes 8 points, which is equivalent to a Half-Orc.
it's very well constructed, but you know they have the throwback alt racial trait right? that changes their subtype to human and eliminates all aquatic traits for them.
it's very well constructed, but you know they have the throwback alt racial trait right? that changes their subtype to human and eliminates all aquatic traits for them.
Yes. Keep in mind, though that this rebuild removes most of the features that would have been swapped out. In fact, if a "Gillman does that, what racial features do they have left?
it's very well constructed, but you know they have the throwback alt racial trait right? that changes their subtype to human and eliminates all aquatic traits for them.Yes. Keep in mind, though that this rebuild removes most of the features that would have been swapped out. In fact, if a "Gillman does that, what racial features do they have left?
If you are going to do that, why not take a human with an unusual background.
true enough a bonus against enchantments isn't a big deal comparatively. How about a diplomacy bonus when dealing with a aberrations? Or just a straight diplomacy bonus, the are emissaries after all.
true enough a bonus against enchantments isn't a big deal comparatively.it's very well constructed, but you know they have the throwback alt racial trait right? that changes their subtype to human and eliminates all aquatic traits for them.Yes. Keep in mind, though that this rebuild removes most of the features that would have been swapped out. In fact, if a "Gillman does that, what racial features do they have left?
If you are going to do that, why not take a human with an unusual background.
Especially given that they already lose wisdom ...
How about a diplomacy bonus when dealing with a aberrations? Or just a straight diplomacy bonus, the are emissaries after all.
Does the race need more features?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They seem weak; decent stats, aquatic which I barely care about, a handful of abilities that I certainly don't care about. Make "Servitor Race" count as Endurance for prerequisites to make them slightly better.
They seem weak; decent stats, aquatic which I barely care about, a handful of abilities that I certainly don't care about. Make "Servitor Race" count as Endurance for prerequisites to make them slightly better.
Agreed.
They seem weak; decent stats, aquatic which I barely care about, a handful of abilities that I certainly don't care about. Make "Servitor Race" count as Endurance for prerequisites to make them slightly better.
You're right, and given the "fixed feat" of Endurance would give slightly better bonuses and could towards the Diehard feat.
This version now weighs in at 10 points.
Gillmen are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice. All gillmen have the following racial traits.
-- Height: As Human
-- Weight: As Human
-- Starting Age: As Half-Elf
-- Age Categories: As Half-Elf
They should probably get Darkvision.
They should probably get Darkvision.
May I ask why?
Are you looking a the VERY deep ocean, which sees no sunlight?
You picked the skills I was thinking of. Nice job mind-reading.
They should probably get Darkvision.May I ask why?
Are you looking a the VERY deep ocean, which sees no sunlight?
If they primarily dwell in the disphotic zone (twilight zone) they should probably have low-light.
If they primarily dwell in the aphotic zone (midnight zone) they should probably have darkvision or some sort of bioluminescence.I realize these are very "real world" attributes of real world ocean dwelling creatures; I'm not sure how true-to-life you want to go with a fantasy humanoid race, just offering suggestions. I think they'd be fine without either, mind you.
They should probably get Darkvision.May I ask why?
Are you looking a the VERY deep ocean, which sees no sunlight?
If they primarily dwell in the disphotic zone (twilight zone) they should probably have low-light.
If they primarily dwell in the aphotic zone (midnight zone) they should probably have darkvision or some sort of bioluminescence.I realize these are very "real world" attributes of real world ocean dwelling creatures; I'm not sure how true-to-life you want to go with a fantasy humanoid race, just offering suggestions. I think they'd be fine without either, mind you.
We know that Aboleth live in the darkest depths. Creatures that they would need to negotiate with (such as Kraken)also live in those depths. So, it follows that they should have darkvision.
We know that Aboleth live in the darkest depths. Creatures that they would need to negotiate with (such as Kraken)also live in those depths. So, it follows that they should have darkvision.
I actually didn't know that. I'm not very up-to-date on the Golarion (sp?) story & fluff.
In that instance, wouldn't it be more appropriate to give them:
Deepsight (2 RP)
Prerequisites: Amphibious racial trait.
Benefit: Members of this race are specially adapted to the lightless depths of the oceans, but not to air-filled environments. They can see in the dark up to 120 feet while underwater, but do not gain this benefit out of water.
My problems with deepsight are a. it's very situational (you'll never use it unless you're in an aquatic adventure and b. it's a bit overpriced for what you get from a situational power.
We know that Aboleth live in the darkest depths. Creatures that they would need to negotiate with (such as Kraken)also live in those depths. So, it follows that they should have darkvision.I actually didn't know that. I'm not very up-to-date on the Golarion (sp?) story & fluff.
In that instance, wouldn't it be more appropriate to give them:
Deepsight (2 RP)
Prerequisites: Amphibious racial trait.
Benefit: Members of this race are specially adapted to the lightless depths of the oceans, but not to air-filled environments. They can see in the dark up to 120 feet while underwater, but do not gain this benefit out of water.My problems with deepsight are a. it's very situational (you'll never use it unless you're in an aquatic adventure and b. it's a bit overpriced for what you get from a situational power.
I agree. Deepsight might be more appropriate. However, as you point out, "deepsight" is too situational.
One of my objectives for rebuilding the Gillmen as to make them more useful then they are now. (Check out their original write-up on page 310 of the Inner Sea World Guide.)
Trying again. :)
Now weighing in at 11 points, same as a Dwarf, with what I hope to be the final update.
Gillmen are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice. All gillmen have the following racial traits.
-- Height: As Human
-- Weight: As Human
-- Starting Age: As Half-Elf
-- Age Categories: As Half-Elf
Are they now, at 11 points, too now powerful (given that their amphibious quality and swim speed are still somewhat situational)?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Re: The Inner Sea Guide. They are just... horrible. It's the same feeling I got when I saw Pathfinder's "Kobold" write up.
Your latest version looks great to me. By great, I mean I could actually see someone playing them from a mechanical perspective.
Re: The Inner Sea Guide. They are just... horrible. It's the same feeling I got when I saw Pathfinder's "Kobold" write up.
Your latest version looks great to me. By great, I mean I could actually see someone playing them from a mechanical perspective.
As long as it still fits the "flavor text" of the original, then I will have accomplished what I was trying to do. :)
Optional Trait System
The Advanced Player’s Guide introduced an optional system of character traits to allow players to further customize their heroes and as a tool to define the character’s background and upbringing. When using that system, the following count as “Race Traits” for Gillman characters.
Note: These also presume that a loyal servitor to the aboleths would not be useful as a player character.
Slime Hunter: These Gillmen are from tribes that have fought against aboleths since escaping their domination. They often hunt the abominations and their creations; unwilling forget what was done to them.
Throwback: Some gillmen are throwbacks to their land-dwelling human ancestors. They actually prefer to live on land and have integrated themselves well into a local human culture. Of course, that this choice puts them largely beyond the reach of their former masters is not lost upon them.