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Weird Words (Su): At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with 1 potent sound per bard level (maximum 10), each sound affecting one target within 30 feet. These are ranged touch attacks. Each weird word deals 1d8 points of damage plus the bard’s Charisma bonus (Fortitude half ), and the bard chooses whether it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage for each word.
Does this mean that at 10th level a Sound Striker Bard with an 18 Charisma can, at the cost of a standard action and a round of bardic performance, make 10 different ranged touch attacks, each dealing 1d8+4 of his choice of damage type (Fort save for half), and can spread those attacks amongst as many creatures as he likes or even focus them all against just one?
What determines the Fort save DC? Am I right in thinking its rare that a save is required when an ability is used as a touch attack that has to hit first?
Can this ability be used with a Paladin's Smite? What about a Ranger's Favored Enemy bonus?
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You are mostly correct. The line you're not considering is "... each sound affecting one target..." So yes, up to 10 targets can be hit with a bolt of sound for 1d8+4 damage, but only one bolt per target. So if there are three enemies in range, he can only fire three bolts (one per target).
It is very odd that there is both an attack roll and a save; I'm guessing the save is a typo or otherwise unintentional. Otherwise I'd have to say the DC is based on level and charisma (so DC 24 in this case, I believe). However, I would remove the save clause, or the attack roll, in my game.
The ability is otherwise an attack roll and can have any modifications a supernatural attack can have. If you're looking for suggestions of how it melds with other abilities, I'd recommend looking up questions on Scorching Ray, which fires multiple rays at once and has a bunch of "but what if I combine it with X or Y" questions around it.
Generally, I'd treat each bolt as a separate attack independent of the others and does its own damage based on the creature it hits. So favored enemy would add damage against the appropriate enemies while a "on next attack" or "on one attack" bonuses would only work for a specific bolt as declared by the bard before the attacks are rolled.
You are mostly correct. The line you're not considering is "... each sound affecting one target..." So yes, up to 10 targets can be hit with a bolt of sound for 1d8+4 damage, but only one bolt per target. So if there are three enemies in range, he can only fire three bolts (one per target).
I appreciate the response.
It seems to me that the wording is unclear at best when referring to the number of targets. Each attack affects only one target yes, but there is absolutely nothing in the description that specifically limits the user to only one attack per target. The Magic Missile spell (for instance) also makes the deliberate point that each missle can strike only one target, but clearly is intended for multiple missiles to be used against single foes as well.
I'd really like some sort of official ruling on this, but I couldn't find an example of where it had been discussed before. Its important because it drastically affects how the ability might be used. It occurred to me that the saving throw might have been put in as an additional limitation deliberately. As written, if the ability can be used to make multiple attacks against a single target, it seems a bit over-powered and potentially exploitable - but if it can only be used against one target per attack, especially with the saving throw, it seems incredibly under-powered as well.
We're getting our ducks in a row for the Wrath of the Righteous, and an Azata-Blooded Sound Striker/Paladin really seems like a great character concept, but obviously this rules determination will go a long way towards how affective she is.
Agreed; the wording is ambiguous. I can think of ways it could be worded to be clear in either direction. For example, magic missile specifically says "If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature." This makes it clear that multiple missiles can be divided as you wish. Of course, conversely this could have said "lashing out with 1 potent sound per enemy within 30 feet, up to bard level (maximum 10)".
I hit the FAQ button but there's no certainty of a speedy response.
I don't think it is 10 bolts to be used as you suggest because that would give a sound striker a once-a-round ranged touch attack that can do a maximum of 10d8+40 damage (more since a level 10 bard will probably have a 20-22 charisma). They could do this, what, 26 times a day? That would be wildly powerful.
1d8+4 is going to be a bit better than a crossbow and certainly more likely to hit. This makes it still very useful, even if just one per target.
Strangely enough, since the damage is slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning, damage reduction MIGHT apply against the damage.
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Strangely enough, since the damage is slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning, damage reduction MIGHT apply against the damage.
That's an excellent point. Add to that the fact that its also got a Fortitude save for half (I'm guessing DC 10+ 1/2 character level + CHA mod?) and its not quite as overwhelmingly powerful as it might look on the surface if usable against a single target...
...and of course, becomes even more underwhelming if not.
Strangely enough, since the damage is slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning, damage reduction MIGHT apply against the damage.That's an excellent point. Add to that the fact that its also got a Fortitude save for half (I'm guessing DC 10+ 1/2 character level + CHA mod?) and its not quite as overwhelmingly powerful as it might look on the surface if usable against a single target...
...and of course, becomes even more underwhelming if not.
JJ has already weighed in on this issue here
2) Yes, the sounds do bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, and are thus subject to normal damage reduction.
While JJ is not an official source, he's most official than an absence of errata.
We can assume a level 10 bard has a 20 charisma and a 16 Dex. That gives you a DC 20 and a +10 to hit. Looking over CR 10 monsters, touch AC averages 9 and Fort save +13. So 10 bolts against a target will see 95% success rate (accounting for rolling a 1) to hit and 30% save fail rate.
1d8 + 5 averages to 9.5 damage. 95% hit rate gets us 9.025. 70% doing half damage + 30% doing full damage is about 5.87 per bolt (this is where I hope I remember my stats class and/or the 5% miss chance is too small to drastically affect the outcome). So 10 shots is going to be just shy of 60 damage. A round. 26 times a day. After accounting for misses and saves. It could be as high as 130. And it can crit on a 20 (not included above but can probably push it to 60/use).
Yes, DR can affect it and that can be devastating; even DR 5/anything would drop the attack down some 40+ average damage. However you would simply never use this ability on a creature who has DR, regardless of how many bolts could be applied.
While JJ is not an official source, he's most official than an absence of errata.
We can assume a level 10 bard has a 20 charisma and a 16 Dex. That gives you a DC 20 and a +10 to hit. Looking over CR 10 monsters, touch AC averages 9 and Fort save +13. So 10 bolts against a target will see 95% success rate (accounting for rolling a 1) to hit and 30% save fail rate.
1d8 + 5 averages to 9.5 damage. 95% hit rate gets us 9.025. 70% doing half damage + 30% doing full damage is about 5.87 per bolt (this is where I hope I remember my stats class and/or the 5% miss chance is too small to drastically affect the outcome). So 10 shots is going to be just shy of 60 damage. A round. 26 times a day. After accounting for misses and saves. It could be as high as 130. And it can crit on a 20 (not included above but can probably push it to 60/use).
Yes, DR can affect it and that can be devastating; even DR 5/anything would drop the attack down some 40+ average damage. However you would simply never use this ability on a creature who has DR, regardless of how many bolts could be applied.
And again, if Smite can be applied to it... bonus damage, higher chance to hit and bypass of DR. Its the combo I've been looking at from the beginning. I think an Azata with its favored class ability could generate 9 attacks at 6th level, after which I would go straight Paladin, possibly Oath of Vengeance and/or Oath Against Fiends.
You also have to take into account that by level 10, your total damage is already maxed, with diminishing returns as you level up. A spellcaster or martial character will increase their DPR as they level where Weird Words goes down (increased chance to save, more likely to have DR etc.).
unless your DM allows you to take ranged attack feats like clustered shot, this is a pretty ineffectual option after level 10.
clustered shot specifically says "ranged weapon attacks" so you probably can't use that feat specifically with it. It's also not a ray so you may not be able to use feats like weapon focus or even point blank shot with it.
It's a great combo at low levels.
I much prefer the party buffer Bard to the selfish style Bard though. Nothing says OMG quite like adding 70+ DPR to every non-spellcaster in your party at lvl 10. The only downside is that the other players just think their awesome and don't realize how much of their effectiveness is due to the Bard.
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So, first, you can hit the same guy 10 times. James Jacobs confirmed that, too.
Also, the save for all supernatural abilities is 10+1/2 level+stat. So, it'd be 19 for the bard in the original post.
By sheer logic:
each x has one y
Does not imply that
each y has one x
Compare:
"Each child has one mother"
does not imply
"Each mother has one child"
Hence, that each sound has one target does not imply that
for each target there is (only) one sound.
So the average CR10 Monster would save:
Good Fort: 75% of the time
Poor Fort: 50% of the time
clustered shot specifically says "ranged weapon attacks" so you probably can't use that feat specifically with it. It's also not a ray so you may not be able to use feats like weapon focus or even point blank shot with it.
Like I said.... unless your DM allows it. I think anything with a attack roll should benefit from weapon feats, but that's just me.
Would it be generally agrees that the Azata's favored class option would allow the uses per round to accrue at 1.5x the normal rate (i.e. 9 uses per round at 6th level)? I assume the Azata can select a bardic performance he doesn't yet have for the bonus.
They figured out a DC 20 for the save because they assumed a level 10 bard would have at least 20 Cha, if not 22 or higher (+2 from leveling and +2 from a headband on top of 18 base).So, first, you can hit the same guy 10 times. James Jacobs confirmed that, too.
Also, the save for all supernatural abilities is 10+1/2 level+stat. So, it'd be 19 for the bard in the original post.
The only other post to posit a DC suggested 24, presumably from 10 + level 10 + the 18 charisma mentioned in the first post. I was simply correcting that it would be 1/2 level, not full level.