Need honest critique on 3.5 Sorcerer GIsh build

[Ashoten]

Ok I have been obsessed with trying to make a fun and workable gish(fighter/mage) for a while in 3.5. I know the easy answer is to make a Magus but I am in a group that prefers Ebron 3.5. SO I was poring through the Races of Dragon book and came across some Draconic blood feats and class options that are pretty awesome.

So here is the build in a nut shell. I want honest feedback on any feats or options I missed, or if this build is crap.

Level 1: : Dragon Blooded Sorcerer substitution level (races of dragon pg.107)

Level 2: Fighter 1. This is to qualify for Abjurant Champion later

lvl 3-5: Sorcerer 2-4

lvl 6-15: Dragon Heart Mage 1-10(Races of Dragons pg.88)

lvl: 16-20: Abjuration Champion 1-5 (Complete Mage pg.50)

Feats by lvl
1: Draconic Heritage from Dragon Blooded Sorcerer level
1: Combat Casting
Human: Draconic toughness(RoD 105)
2: Fighter feat-Improved Imitative
3: Extend Spell
6: Empowered Spell
6: Draconic Breath-granted by class
7: Draconic CLaws-granted bonus feat from class
9: Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior 96)
9: Draconic Vigor-granted bonus feat from class(Dragon Magic 17)
12: Craft Rod
13: Draconic Arcane Grace-granted bonus feat from class(RoD 102)
15: Persistent Spell (Complete Arcane 81)
18: Practical MetaMagic for Persistent Spell (RoD 101)

Basic Idea of the build is to cast offensive spells or buffs and then attack in the same round with Draconic Claws. This is the Benefit of Draconic Claws. Eventually building to the point where you can apply Persistent spell to the best buffs. This is a heavy caster build with 17 levels of Sorcerer at 20. You could easily replace human race with Gnome for the con bonus instead of getting Draconic Toughness. Any thoughts?

[Ashoten]

bump

[Kyaaadaa]

Abjurant Champion is good, also look at Argent Savant. They increase Abjuration spell ACs by another +2, and get Extend spell automatically for their force effects.

Peer into Magic of Incarnum for some simple boosts and buffs as well.

My food for thought.

[Pupsocket]

First of all, starting level? Expected end level?

[Algar Lysandris]

Best 3.5 Gish
Fighter / Paladin 2
Sorc 4
SpellSword 1
Abjurant champion 3( or 5)
Eldrich Knight 10 (or 7)

nets you +18 Bab and 8th level spells (Sorc CL 18th)

Same build with wizard levels nets you 9th level spells tough

[Ashoten]

Pupsocket wrote:

First of all, starting level? Expected end level?

This is future planing for the next campaign so I am not certain but usually level 3. End cap level I do not know but I always plan it out so that each ability will be useful at each level I get them.

[Ashoten]

Algar Lysandris wrote:

Best 3.5 Gish

Fighter / Paladin 2
Sorc 4
SpellSword 1
Abjurant champion 3( or 5)
Eldrich Knight 10 (or 7)

nets you +18 Bab and 8th level spells (Sorc CL 18th)

Same build with wizard levels nets you 9th level spells tough

Yes I have come to about this same build myself more then once while going through the numbers. This specific Draconic Bloodline build is meant to also give damage mitigation and survivability through the Draconic heritage feats. Additionally this build combines the ability to cast magic and melee together seamlessly which is the goal for me when building a gish.

[Ashoten]

Kyaaadaa wrote:

Abjurant Champion is good, also look at Argent Savant. They increase Abjuration spell ACs by another +2, and get Extend spell automatically for their force effects.

Peer into Magic of Incarnum for some simple boosts and buffs as well.

My food for thought.

Yes Argent savant is really useful for boosting AC especially if the DM bans the Brilliant Armor(which an abjuration) spell from The Book Exhalted deeds (most DMs I know ban that whole book).

[minoritarian]

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

That's pretty much the standard Sorcadin Gish. Sacred Exorcist grants you Turn Undead so you can take Divine MetaMagic and apply it to Persistent Spell.

Greater Luminous Armour from the BoED, Wraithstrike, Draconic Polymorph, maybe take the Arcane Disciple feat if there's any really good divine buff you need but I don't know that there is.

[Ashoten]

minoritarian wrote:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

That's pretty much the standard Sorcadin Gish. Sacred Exorcist grants you Turn Undead so you can take Divine MetaMagic and apply it to Persistent Spell.

Greater Luminous Armour from the BoED, Wraithstrike, Draconic Polymorph, maybe take the Arcane Disciple feat if there's any really good divine buff you need but I don't know that there is.

Damn that is pretty good. I always overlooked Sacred Exorcist because I assumed it was a divine spell casting class. Ok I will look into this more.

[Cold Napalm]

My gish of choice in 3.5 was the fighter 1/wizard 6/Spellsword 5/AC 5/EK 3.

CL 16 (so no 9th level spells) and BAB 17. The main thing was the spellsword's spell channel ability. It changes the target of the spell you spell channel from whatever it is to whatever you hit. So AMF that JUST affects the critter you hit with no save? Yes please. Even before that sleet storm, various solid fog line of spells and black tentacle spell channeled can be pretty vicious. Shouldn't be much of an issue to swap out for sorcerer.

[minoritarian]

Ashoten wrote:

minoritarian wrote:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

That's pretty much the standard Sorcadin Gish. Sacred Exorcist grants you Turn Undead so you can take Divine MetaMagic and apply it to Persistent Spell.

Greater Luminous Armour from the BoED, Wraithstrike, Draconic Polymorph, maybe take the Arcane Disciple feat if there's any really good divine buff you need but I don't know that there is.

Damn that is pretty good. I always overlooked Sacred Exorcist because I assumed it was a divine spell casting class. Ok I will look into this more.

Yep, Sacred Exorcist is amazing. That build ends up with 16 BAB and 18CL (Only loses CL from Paladin levels).

Draconic Polymorph into a Wartroll and you're in business. Don't ever use persistent spell on Wraithstrike though; your GM will be within their rights to skin you and wear you like a floppy suit.

[Ashoten]

minoritarian wrote:

Ashoten wrote:

minoritarian wrote:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

That's pretty much the standard Sorcadin Gish. Sacred Exorcist grants you Turn Undead so you can take Divine MetaMagic and apply it to Persistent Spell.

Greater Luminous Armour from the BoED, Wraithstrike, Draconic Polymorph, maybe take the Arcane Disciple feat if there's any really good divine buff you need but I don't know that there is.

Damn that is pretty good. I always overlooked Sacred Exorcist because I assumed it was a divine spell casting class. Ok I will look into this more.

Yep, Sacred Exorcist is amazing. That build ends up with 16 BAB and 18CL (Only loses CL from Paladin levels).

Draconic Polymorph into a Wartroll and you're in business. Don't ever use persistent spell on Wraithstrike though; your GM will be within their rights to skin you and wear you like a floppy suit.

LOL yeah Wraith strike can be devastating against big bads like dragons. Make their Natural armor count for nothing. That leads me to another question. Doesn't the existence of spells like Wraith strike, True Strike and Arcane Strike Feat render your BaB a little meaningless?

[minoritarian]

Not really. With having BAB 16 you have four attacks. Without Wraithstrike you're unlikely to hit anything with that fourth attack but with it you are - the combination of both is useful.