Hey guys! My party and I have recently lost our tank so were thinking about pooling our resources and crafting a GLASS GOLEM to serve in that role. Problem is, we're risking a LOT OF RESOURCES (about 20k) which at the party's level of just recently making six, and in Serpent skull (which seems very light on loot and not much access to everything we need) -- I really need some help thinking outside the box to improve the roll to complete the golem. This is what I have so far in the way of bonuses, let me know if you if you have better ideas, or I've missed anything... let me know...
We have a level 5Bard/1oracle, Level 6 Cleric, level 6 Wizard.
So far we have though of this to improve the skill roll:
+4 (Heroism+moment of greatness to double a morale bonus for 1 round) (morale)/ +3 Touch of Good (Sacred) / +2 Inspire Competance / Fox Cunning +2 (Enchant) / Prayer +1 luck bonus /
I know this excluded circumstance and any untyped bonuses, anybody know any?
Can you think of any other or better bonuses we can apply or get access to creatively without access to a shop or town?
Another way to help: Is there any way the party can summon a creature that can cast any of these spells for us? : animate objects, flame strike, geas/quest & spell turning? Any way of getting a hold of any of those spells would make the construction much easier.
PLEASE HELP! Counting on this forum's brilliance!
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So, you need a DC: 35. Your base spellcraft in the party is probably 6 ranks + trained + maybe 2 from Int? So, +11, right?
With those buffs you listed, you have +23. Almost there.
A Scroll of Crafter's Fortune would be dirt cheap and could replace your +1 luck bonus with a +5. That'll give you a +27. Even if you started with 10 Int, that's a +25.
At that point, you just take 10. Done.
Every use of a skill has an appropriate masterwork tool associated with it for a +2 circumstance bonus. Figure out what tools are actually used in golem construction and get a good set of them.
I assume you've already looked into the Aid Another for another +2/person? I'm sure that if necessary you could hire craftsmen by the battalion to give you those bonuses.
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I think the DC is 40 as they also don't meet the caster level 10 requirement. Has it been established that temporary/short duration buffs apply to crafting rolls? I'm not sure but I'd probably allow it.
I assume it's the wizard who will be doing the golem making; I don't think anyone else could actually have Craft Construct at level 6. It's probably safe to assume an 18ish Int in that case - so +29 using crafter's fortune
No 3rd level or lower summons is going to have 5th-7th level spells. Buying scrolls would get prohibitively expensive as you need one for each day of casting and you have a chance to screw up the casting due to caster level differences.
You could get a masterwork golem-making tool for a +2 circumstance bonus for 50gp. that would bump you to a +31, enough to take 10 if your GM allows the short-term buffs to work.
Due to the nature of our campaign situation, we can't shop/buy items -- we're unlikely to cross with civilization for a good while. So buying a scroll is not possible, but since we just leveled it might be possible to take Crafter's fortune as a level 1 spell.
Our DM is a total hardass, so he won't allow Aid Another for an item crafter if the other people don't have the feat as well... and we don't. We also can't hire any craftsmen because we're in the jungle.
These ideas are great though, I hope more come in!
We don't have any of those spells, and can't buy them, but the RAW says you can skip any requirement at a penalty of +2 to the DC for each element you don't have -- the only requirement you can't skip in this regard is the creation feat.
No aid other allowed, sadly -- as stated above. But the buffs should work.
Any other ideas?
Especially untyped bonuses or better bonuses than I've stated above? The crafter spell was a BIG bump already!
We don't have any of those spells, and can't buy them, but the RAW says you can skip any requirement at a penalty of +2 to the DC for each element you don't have -- the only requirement you can't skip in this regard is the creation feat.
I think it's a +5 to the DC, not a +2. "The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory."
I'm afraid that that the four missing spells and the caster level turn into a DC 60. That may be impractical even for the most practiced minimaxer.
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So, you need a DC: 35. Your base spellcraft in the party is probably 6 ranks + trained + maybe 2 from Int? So, +11, right?
With those buffs you listed, you have +23. Almost there.
A Scroll of Crafter's Fortune would be dirt cheap and could replace your +1 luck bonus with a +5. That'll give you a +27. Even if you started with 10 Int, that's a +25.
At that point, you just take 10. Done.
Maybe +2 from Int? If it's the Wizard doing the crafting, that seems awfully low.
I'd recommend getting a scroll of Gallant Inspiration. The Bard can cast it without even rolling for it, and if your craft check does seem low then he can retroactively add +2d4 untyped bonus.
Not sure why you chose a GLASS golem of all things. You'd need to make a Craft(sculptures) check to craft it-- did someone really have ranks in that? Plus I'd think if I were looking to replace the tank, I'd go for a golem that doesn't die if it gets too near the opera house.
Not that I'm finding any that are easier to create. The Bone golem has the advantage that bones are pretty easy to come by, and you can replace the Craft check with a Heal check, but then Crafter's Fortune won't help you. I'd take a second look through the Bestiary and see if there's anything else that might be easier/cheaper to craft witout sacrificing too much combat capability.
Hey guys! My party and I have recently lost our tank so were thinking about pooling our resources and crafting a GLASS GOLEM to serve in that role. Problem is, we're risking a LOT OF RESOURCES (about 20k) which at the party's level of just recently making six, and in Serpent skull (which seems very light on loot and not much access to everything we need) -- I really need some help thinking outside the box to improve the roll to complete the golem. This is what I have so far in the way of bonuses, let me know if you if you have better ideas, or I've missed anything... let me know...We have a level 5Bard/1oracle, Level 6 Cleric, level 6 Wizard.
Must it be a golem?
Depending upon how much downtime you have, it might be easier to research a spell like Call Animal (Advanced Player Guide). It's a level 1 spell, typically Druid/Ranger only, but if the Wizard could develop it, you could summon as many tanks as you like and simply use appropriate enchantment spells to make them do what you wanted.
Yeah, I somehow missed that it was a party with a Wizard. So, yeah, 18 Int base, probably--maybe 20 if you had higher Point buy. Which, if you can swing Crafter's Fortune, that's +29 to hit a DC: 40 (I also forgot the CL requirement would bump it up by 5, too).
This might be a little odd, but could you perhaps use all your crafting bonuses to craft a mundane set of Masterwork Crafting Tools? Craft is usable untrained, after all.
I mean, really, you just need to get a +30, that's all, and you can take 10 and nail it.
Edit: And yeah, it's a base of 5+CL of the item, so 15. Then 5 for not meeting the CL and for each spell, so 40 total, not 60.
Gm won't allow taking 10, either... like I said, he's a hardass.
My associate is CERTAIN glass golems are AWESOME... are they actually fragile? In what way are they vulnerable?
Gm won't allow taking 10, either... like I said, he's a hardass.
Does he understand that this is, by rules-as-written, incorrect? I mean, it's his game and I can understand wanting to add the additional challenge, but a lot of people don't understand the take-10 rules.
My associate is CERTAIN glass golems are AWESOME... are they actually fragile? In what way are they vulnerable?
Shatter spells (q.v.) really mess them up.
Does it have to be a Glass Golem? You could make, say, a Bone Golem right now with your current bonuses.
How about a Clay Golem? That's also easier for you, and actually, more powerful.
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Gm won't allow taking 10, either... like I said, he's a hardass.
My associate is CERTAIN glass golems are AWESOME... are they actually fragile? In what way are they vulnerable?
After consulting their stat block, they're not as vulnerable as being made of glass would suggest. They do require 2500 pounds of glass though, so not sure where you're getting that in a jungle.
Personally, I would recommend the Alchemical Golem. Higher CR, better damage reduction, more useful Craft skill, has a ranged attack, and more importantly: two of the spells needed (Gentle Repose and Resist Energy) are low-level enough that the Cleric could prepare them. That means you only take a +20 to the DC instead of a +25.
My colleague is confident the spell reflection power would turn away the odd shatter that flew our way...
Can you make a strong argument for the Clay golem in the way it is superior? Thank you so much for discussing this, MpIndustries especially!
Can you make a strong argument for the Clay golem in the way it is superior? Thank you so much for discussing this, MpIndustries especially!
Well, higher hit points, better AC, better damage resistance (10/adamantine AND bludgeoning), and vulnerability to higher-level (and therefore rarer) spells would all argue for a more powerful tank.
Graven guardians make for extremely durable combatants. There are few constructs that boast better defensive abilities, and none that are a better deal. Fast healing, DR, and SR make them extremely hard to destroy--what's more, their domains allow you to better customize them to your needs,
If your GM is a hardass about the rules, then he is wrong about taking 10--you should be able to. I mean, his game, so it's his call, but that's not RAW.
As for the Clay Golem:
You can use Summon Monster III to summon a Silvanshee, which can cast Commune once/week. You can cast Bless and Prayer already. So, that only leaves 2 spells un-cast plus the too-low-CL for a DC: 31.
If you can do the trick with the crafting tool, that's an auto-success.
Otherwise, a 90% chance is pretty damn good.
As for whether it's better than the Glass Golem, I just went by HD and CR for a quick and dirty compare.
In more depth:
The Clay Golem has more HP, more AC, better DR, and the real seller for me is: Acid Splash can heal your Golem. It might take a while, but it'll work. And there's no listed duration or limit on the temporary HP from overhealing, either, so if you're patient, you can buff it's HP pretty high.
My GM says taking 10 is for routine tasks and this is the first Golem that PC is creating... Make sense? I agree it's his game, but if I can show he's coloring outside the line I may be able to sway him.
My GM says taking 10 is for routine tasks and this is the first Golem that PC is creating... Make sense? I agree it's his game, but if I can show he's coloring outside the line I may be able to sway him.
"When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help."
Note that taking 10 only requires that you not be in immediate danger and that you are not distracted.
Taking 10 is not just for routine tasks, it simply makes most routine tasks automatically succeed.
When I play, I hardly ever roll skill checks (generally only in combat), and when I run games, I remind my PCs as much as possible to take 10. It speeds up play and makes skills less swingy.
You can take 10 while crafting. The game designers explicitly say you can. Anything else is a houserule.
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I'll remind you regarding shopping woes that where you are in Serpent's Skull you (spoiler for early Racing to Ruin):
If your GM is saying you can't take 10 "because it's your first golem" throw together a carrion golem real quick - your cleric and wizard ought to be able to cover most of the spells and get the DC down to 17-22, which you ought to be able to do rolling a 1. Use your ickbeast until it dies then make your glass golem as your second one taking 10.
God, THANK YOU RavingDork... that citation brought a pretty fast stop to his creative interpretation. Damn, I love this site sometimes. (sigh of relief) -- with taking 10 we should be able to make it.
Was getting tired of fighting for just two sessions without a tank. Now we'll have one. Saints be praised.
Thanks for hiding the spoiler, Ryric -- we're just finishing Tazion now -- so I'm not sure if what you've hidden may reveal there may be suppliers ahead... I can only hope so!
-V
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Not a god, just a dork.