For those who haven't read it here is the link for my monk remake doc. For the thread discussing it here is that link as well.
Anyway, on to business. I am looking to build a charisma based monk archetype(an idea rainzax had) and had the following ideas so far.
1.charisma to ac, and either to hit or hitpoints
2.focused on being "flashy", and replacing several of the classes spell-like abilities for things like daylight and some-such.
3.alternate ki abilities to support social abilities.
4.replacing stunning fist with dazzling display, but have it go off whenever the monk successfully hits with 2 attacks of his flurry of blows.
I would very much like some help, as I have never really designed an archetype before.
ok looking back, number 1 looks too good for paladins and bards, with either choice...maybe a delayed progression with an alternate ability.
ok, what if they used half their charisma as additional bonus to hit while flurrying? Also maybe change their AC bonus to deflection (non-stacking) for half charisma as well, but allow them to wear light armor. this would also be bumped to level 3. thoughts?
I'd implement something along this mechanic:
The monk gains his Charisma modifier to AC vs enemies that suffer from a fear condition (shaken, frightened, panicked). This combines well with Dazzling Display. Also can be roleplayed as a monk of such frightening intensity that his raw presence can overwhelm.
Daylight and the like seems too oracle/cleric/bastion-of-good.
I'd implement something along this mechanic:
The monk gains his Charisma modifier to AC vs enemies that suffer from a fear condition (shaken, frightened, panicked). This combines well with Dazzling Display. Also can be roleplayed as a monk of such frightening intensity that his raw presence can overwhelm.
Daylight and the like seems too oracle/cleric/bastion-of-good.
I like that idea a lot, though I might still grant light armor proficiency though, as a back up. What special abilities do you think would be good to replace high jump, slowfall, etc? I am also thinking about a ki ability (from their now charisma based ki pool) that lets gain a +2 to charisma based checks, with an additional +2 for every ki spent. this wuld be an immediate action.
thoughts on alternate abilities now include
possible use of crushing despair a limited amount of times per day
not provoking when moving through threatened squares (possibly under specific circumstances)
Bump for additional aid.
I think you should stay away from light armor proficiency. Nobody fears a monk in armor :P - instead keep Wisdom to AC (along with Dex to AC) and add the special Charisma to AC fear condition.
I would stay away from a convenient "Cha to attacks" - this would completely change the meta-game (and make the archetype a key multi-class step for all Charisma-based classes).
Slow Fall could be replaced with something that increases the monks intimidate by +2 (at level 4) and +1 every 4 levels thereafter.
High Jump I'd keep. It's got that "awesome presence" thing going for it that makes the flavor of a "I am impressed by this monk".
I'd consider adding a special ki-based Stunning Fist that allows you to use the ability as a ranged touch attack (for no damage, but can stun). 30ft range. Again flavored against projecting the awesome of the monk at an enemy.
It wouldn't be wis for this monk, but con (see link in first post) though if it became a universal archetype, that wouldn't be such a bad thing. Question when should the fear bonus kick in and what should it replace?
Already said what my input on that is: +2 at level 4, +1 every 4 levels thereafter. Replaces Slow Fall.
I don't think you should mix the flavor paradigms too much. Con-to-AC coupled with Cha-to-Class-Abilities evoke a very disparate image for a character. That said, Con-to-AC is a great idea for an immortal-style archetype; but I don't think it is suited to a presence-based archetype. Essentially you're blending what should be two distinct archetypes.
The con for ac was from my monk remake(not archetype) thats what i posted in the link above. I think i am going back to charisma replacing ac bonus, thus preventing MAD, along with this 1st level ability.
Devoted Presence : A shining disciple (new archetype name) draws inner strength from the combination of training and personal presence, though it takes constant training to maintain. A shining disciple may use their charisma bonus in place of their constitution bonus, to dtermine their hitpoints. A Shining Disciple must wear no armor and/or be heavily encumbered to use this ability.
I feel like this archetype needs some sort of flashy memorable ability.
edit:how about something that replaces the dimensional step stuff?
Awesome sauce
I think I am going to drop the heavy encumbrance clause from Devoted Presence. I totally picture someone dropping something on them just to make them drop hit points. Then again they can totally manage a higher strength than the regular monk...hmmm I should crunch some numbers.
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i agree with the sentiments expressed by LoreKeeper.
more concretely,
Monk of the Devoted Presence (Archtype):
a Monk of the Devoted Presence may substitute his Charisma bonus in for his Wisdom bonus for the following monk abilities: AC Bonus, Stunning Fist DC, ki pool points and abilities, Quivering Palm, and any other class feature that is keyed to Wisdom (for example from other monk archetypes).
a Monk of the Devoted Presence loses Sense Motive as a class skill and gains Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Use Magic Device as class skills.
The following feats are traded for a Devoted monk's list of bonus feats:
Dazzling Display > Scoprion Style
Shatter Defenses > Gorgon's Fist (at 6th)
Deadly Stroke > Medusa's Wrath (at 10th)
also, a Monk of the Devoted Presence may use the above feats with their unarmed strikes as if they possessed Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) and Greater Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), as appropriate.
...
i agree with the sentiments expressed by LoreKeeper.
more concretely,
Monk of the Devoted Presence (Archtype):
a Monk of the Devoted Presence may substitute his Charisma bonus in for his Wisdom bonus for the following monk abilities: AC Bonus, Stunning Fist DC, ki pool points and abilities, Quivering Palm, and any other class feature that is keyed to Wisdom (for example from other monk archetypes).
a Monk of the Devoted Presence loses Sense Motive as a class skill and gains Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Use Magic Device as class skills.
...
right, but i was looking at this an archetype for my monk remake, which addresses the MAD issue by switching all wisdom stuff to constitution. I feel that making it mad again will be a step backwards and my players wouldn't choose it over the base revision.
ok I am going to implement Rainzax's suggestions, but keyed to my monk remake. so to reiterate.
Monk of the Devoted Presence (Archtype):
a monk of the devoted gains 2 additional hitpoints whenever they gain a level in monk.
a Monk of the Devoted Presence loses Sense Motive as a class skill and gains Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Use Magic Device as class skills.
The following feats are traded for a Devoted monk's list of bonus feats:
Dazzling Display > Scoprion Style
Shatter Defenses > Gorgon's Fist (at 6th)
Deadly Stroke > Medusa's Wrath (at 10th)
also, a Monk of the Devoted Presence may use the above feats with their unarmed strikes as if they possessed Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) and Greater Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), as appropriate.
I am trying to make sure that it doesn't become instantly better than my shaolin remake, but not too squishy either. hence the bonus hitpoints. I am looking for some other class features to replace, if only to make this feel more like a fleshed out archetype, rather than a template.
also worth mentioning I am adding wis to ac for the sensei archetype. My remake has full BAB when not flurrying so it should be strong enough.
Cha to AC is fine... Paladins, bards, and the like dipping to get it is the same as clerics, Druids, and inquisitors dipping the raw monk. Now using int instead of wis would be just plain mean...
Cha to AC is fine... Paladins, bards, and the like dipping to get it is the same as clerics, Druids, and inquisitors dipping the raw monk. Now using int instead of wis would be just plain mean...
Yeah I don't mind bards as much, and paladins typically get more out of heavy armor. It does make the champion of Iori more likable as prestige though.
Now using int instead of wis would be just plain mean...
maybe with some extra conditions to discourage magus and wizard dipping. heck I would call it kung-fu genius as a tribute to the old feat.
edit: since my remake uses con for ac, maybe I could grant it at a delayed progression.