I recently had a really odd request from one of my female players: she wants to play a Forlarren rogue. I told her I'd give it a look over and consider it, after which I made a "rough draft" of the race using the ARG.
I immediately decided there was no way I, personally, would ever play a race like this and wrote down the reasons why (it has some severe... very severe penalties). After allowing her to review these reasons, making sure she understood the mechanics behind it, she is still all for it, if not more so.
There was only one issue in calculating the total cost of the race, which is how to value the following:
Remorse (Ex) Whenever a forlarren kills a living creature, it must make a DC 15 Will save to avoid becoming overwhelmed with remorse. If it fails this save, the forlarren becomes nauseated for 1d6 rounds. This is a mind-affecting effect.
It is a pretty severe penalty, particularly with a rogue's Will saves and takes a lot of "work" to try and compensate for through feats.
Any constructive assistance is appreciated.
I'd say it's probably a -2 RP trait, in line with other -2 RP traits in the ARG. By my calculations, stat bonuses would be:
+2 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Con, -6 Int, +4 Wis, -2 Cha
Those bonuses are way to helter-skelter.
If you want to rework the Forlarren into a PC race, use PC-friendly stat modification. The ARG has a set of types (standard, weakness, greater weakness, etc).
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The Forlarren's INT score has always been suspiciously low, to the point that I'm not sure if it's really intended to be that low or if it's a legacy issue. I'll have to check AP SPOILERS HERE to see what they did there, since multiple forlarrens show up in it and some even have INT-based classes.
I'd strongly recommend streamlining the modifiers to be more in line with the norm for PC races, especially since she's playing a rogue and that -6 is going to murder her skills.
Maybe +2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 INT?
I'd keep the heat metal ability, since it has a limited number of uses and she's playing a rogue. If you're worried about it being too powerful at the earliest levels, perhaps she can unlock it and more daily uses of it(to a maximum of 3) as she levels up.
I'd be inclined to keep her creature type as fey, but you have to keep in mind all the various spells that affects(tieflings and aasimar get hit by that all the time).
Now, about Remorse...it's one hell of a handicap, but that's a huge part of the forlarren's flavor, if not the most distinctive feature. I'd be tempted to lower the DC just so it didn't sting so much coupled with the rogue class, but that would risk watering down the whole reason she may want to play that race.
One possibility you might want to consider is from the Tome of Horror's version of the Forlarren, which came earlier. They portrayed the bipolar nature of that race a bit better and more clearly in the flavor, with them alternating between phases of hateful hostility and crushing remorse. Maybe there could be a sort of racial ability to flip that hate-switch "on", kicking off a rage-like state that was almost certainly guaranteed to slam the forlarren with the Remorse state when it wore off/killed someone.
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Re: Mikaze - Yeah, if this Forlarren "redux" doesn't work out, I may have to try your second option or take a look at the 3pp product you mentioned.
Re: Kazaan - We came out pretty close on the ability score estimates. As for the suggestions, I'll definitely point her toward your comments. She seems to really like the idea of the race and let me know she doesn't mind if I have to take liberties with modifying it. I guess it's the flavor and the "remorse" she really likes.
Re: Lemon - I agree. They really seemed to just slap the stats in. If I had my Tome of Horrors handy, I'd check the stats on it vs the reprint by Paizo to see which company did it better or if Paizo just copied the stats.
Here's the quick & very rough run down of it from the ARG. Obviously, some liberties were taken with the spell-like abilities (Paizo says no to damaging spell-like abilities, unless they're the one doing it.)
o Fey (2 RP) Fey have the low-light vision racial trait. Fey breathe, eat, and sleep.
o Languages Standard (0 RP) Common, Sylvan.
o +3 natural armor (5 RP)
o Fey damage resistance 5/cold iron (3 RP)
o Claws (4 RP) 1d6 slashing Members of this race receive two claw attacks. These are primary natural attacks. The damage is based on the creature's size.
o Spell-like Ability, Lesser (6 RP) 3/day In most cases, this manifests as the ability to use heat metal 3/day, but some forlarren instead gain a different spell-like ability chosen from the following list: chill metal, flame blade, flaming sphere, gust of wind, summon swarm, or warp wood.
o Remorse (Ex) (-2 RP) Whenever a forlarren kills a living creature, it must make a DC 15 Will save to avoid becoming overwhelmed with remorse. If it fails this save, the forlarren becomes nauseated for 1d6 rounds. This is a mind-affecting effect.
In essence, an 18+ total without counting the (seemingly random) ability modifiers.
Obviously, not really the level of power I'm going for. So, with that in mind, I tried to rework it to a more PC level race:
o Fey (2 RP) Fey have the low-light vision racial trait. Fey breathe, eat, and sleep.
o Languages Standard (0 RP) Common, Sylvan.
o Natural Armor: (2 RP) Forlarren gain a +1 natural armor bonus to their Armor Class.
o Fey Damage Resistance, Lesser (1 RP) Forlarren gain DR 2/iron*.
o Claws (2 RP) Forlarren receive two claw attacks. These are primary natural attacks. The damage is 1d4 slashing.
o Spell-like Ability, Lesser (6 RP) In most cases, this manifests as the ability to use heat metal 3/day, but some forlarren instead gain a different spell-like ability chosen from the following list: chill metal, flame blade, flaming sphere, gust of wind, summon swarm, or warp wood.
o Remorse (Ex) (-2 RP) Whenever a forlarren kills a living creature, it must make a DC 15 Will save to avoid becoming overwhelmed with remorse. If it fails this save, the forlarren becomes nauseated for 1d6 rounds. This is a mind-affecting effect.
* Cold iron is just another name for iron in my campaign setting. It is not a “special material” outside of the changes normal iron makes to weapon construction.
At an 11 RP total (with quick & dirty reduction on fey damage resistence).
Truth be told, I am seriously considering altering remorse to grant the "sickened" condition instead of nauseated in the reduced version. That many rounds of just being able to take a single move action is atrocious. Additionally, I'm not entirely sold on the ability modifiers I selected for the reduced version. I may actually go with the mixed weakness.
Thoughts?
Re: Mikaze You know, it's pretty funny a lot of your suggestions meshed with what I had in my head about them (ability modifiers, spell-like abilities, remorse).
I'm going to go find my Tome of Horrors now and see what it has.
I really like them, too, though I'd never really considered them for a player race. I have a plethora of fey races, so adding one more (especially with such dark tones) certainly won't hurt.=)
Edit: I like your idea about the "switch" with a rage or frenzy type of deal... something like: on killing an opponent, the forlarren must make a will DC 15 or fly into a "frenzy/rage" for X duration, afterwhich, he/she enters a "Remorse state"?
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Your PC version looks a lot more managable. :)
I think the shift to sickened would be a good idea in the long run,(perhaps with full blown nauseated being reserved for accidentally or knowingly killing innocents?).
I can say this is actually more streamlined than the 3PP I remember, which tried to cleave too close to the original ability scores. I think this works out well enough, and hey, she'll be a little bit sturdier for a rogue for a while!
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Edit: I like your idea about the "switch" with a rage or frenzy type of deal... something like: on killing an opponent, the forlarren must make a will DC 15 or fly into a "frenzy/rage" for X duration, afterwhich, he/she enters a "Remorse state"?
That could be a way to go, though I can't help but caution against it being full-blown "Wild Rager"-style rage. Oh the drama that comes out of that archetype. :)
But honestly though, I think you're good to go as is. Though maybe the rage state thing could be a racial feature that could be unlocked at a certain level(or at the right dramatic moment in the campaign). It could be a Very Nice Thing, but it would have one hell of a drawback too.
Honestly though, if any of my players wanted to go Forlarren, I'd probably be pulling from your version as is.
That could be a way to go, though I can't help but caution against it being full-blown "Wild Rager"-style rage. Oh the drama that comes out of that archetype. :)
But honestly though, I think you're good to go as is. Though maybe the rage state thing could be a racial feature that could be unlocked at a certain level(or at the right dramatic moment in the campaign). It could be a Very Nice Thing, but it would have one hell of a drawback too.
Honestly though, if any of my players wanted to go Forlarren, I'd probably be pulling from your version as is.
o Fey (2 RP) Fey have the low-light vision racial trait. Fey breathe, eat, and sleep.
o Languages Standard (0 RP) Common, Sylvan.
o Natural Armor: (2 RP) Forlarren gain a +1 natural armor bonus to their Armor Class.
o Fey Damage Resistance, Lesser (1 RP) Forlarren gain DR 2/iron*.
o Claws (2 RP) Forlarren receive two claw attacks. These are primary natural attacks. The damage is 1d4 slashing.
o Spell-like Ability, Lesser (6 RP) In most cases, this manifests as the ability to use heat metal 3/day, but some forlarren instead gain a different spell-like ability chosen from the following list: chill metal, flame blade, flaming sphere, gust of wind, summon swarm, or warp wood.
o Remorse (Ex) (-2 RP) Whenever a forlarren kills a living creature, it must make a DC 15 Will save to avoid becoming overwhelmed with remorse. If it fails this save, the forlarren becomes sickened for 1d6 rounds. This is a mind-affecting effect.
* Cold iron is just another name for iron in my campaign setting. It is not a “special material” outside of the changes normal iron makes to weapon construction.
At an 11 RP total (with quick & dirty reduction on fey damage resistence).
I definitely don't mind changing something to make it fit, as opposed to statting up something I feel is ridiculously "helter skelter", as Lemon put it.
I think you're right regarding the current state of the race - I won't fiddle with the core, but will add the standard race progression I use. I grant the PCs 1 RP at every even level to spend on improving their race's abilities from a specific list customized for each race (the idea for this sort of thing was presented back during the ARG open beta and I latched onto it then) or to grant abilities that are too over-the-top for lower levels, but more reasonable at higher levels (such as the forlarren improving her natural armor to a max of +3, for example or the inclusion of a "Frenzy"-like ability such as the one included in the ARG).
I worked out a quick build for it.
** spoiler omitted **...
Sorry it took a bit to respond to this, but I'll definitely have her check out your sample build. I get the impression she intends to go full rogue though, which should be interesting.
Years ago, Purple Duck Games did a breakdown of a playable 0HD forlarren race. The blog is now gone, but here's the ARG Race points and mechanics of it:
FORLARREN RACIAL TRAITS
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence: Forlarren are graceful and intuitive, but possess only a low cunning that serves their cruelty.
Fey: Forlarren are of the fey type. Forlarren possess no racial hit dice and exchange the features of their fey type for the class features of a PC or NPC class.
Medium: Forlarren are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Forlarren have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-light Vision: Forlarren can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Hellfires: Forlarren add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against spells they cast with the fire descriptor. Forlarren with a Charisma score of 12 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day - faerie fire, heat metal, and light.
Natural Attacks: Forlarren have two natural claw attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage on a successful hit. These are primary attacks, or secondary attacks if the forlarren wields a manufactured weapon.
Faery Resistance: Forlarren gain resistance to injury passed down from their fey mother. Forlarren receive DR ½ HD (min. 1) /cold iron.
Remorse: Whenever a forlarren kills a living creature, it must make a DC Will save (DC 10 +1/2 HD + Cha modifier) to avoid becoming overwhelmed with remorse. If it fails this save, the forlarren becomes nauseated for 1d6 rounds. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Languages: Forlarren begin play speaking Common and Sylvan. Forlarren with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Abyssal, Elven, Druidic, Draconic, and Goblin.