I know he gets a shiny SLA that allows him to super summon along with actual summoning spells.
But that's it. He's got some buffs and other spells to cast, but has an abysmal number of them. Outside of limited casting and his SLA the only thing the master summoner personally would do in combat is conduct his low CR encounter against the vastly higher CR encounter.
He goes toe to toe with the other full casters because of how good summoning is as a mechanic, but he's not game breaking.
Including summons: his DC's and to hit are low. His only tactic is to crush with numbers, and with all the AOE every class can get a BBEG shouldn't have too much trouble with the summons.
Master summoner has great battle field control and decent damage, but I don't understand how he is, I quote, "The destroyer of worlds".
Why do people think the archetype is game breaking?
NOTE: Let's assume the person playing it is responsible and doesn't lag the game.
The usual issue is just the crush from having so many things and the action economy related to controlling 10 things on your turn. Can't comment further from there as I never actually played a Master Summoner.
Its easy for him to get 10 summons per day and each one is as powerful as the strongest one a prepared caster can summon and his entire spell list is devouted to buffing them. He summons more and they all remain on the field, as opposed to the normal summoner who dismisses and summons more to get 2 actions in one turn. Normal summons are full round action and his is standard. Summon options only get better as you level...
Why do people think the archetype is game breaking?
NOTE: Let's assume the person playing it is responsible and doesn't lag the game.
I see you haven't thought through this archetype much.
The point of the MS is to lag the game. It only gets easier for others to swallow if you hand out your critters. If they're not ambushed for major encounters, they pretty much roflstomp them on-demand. This is especially true after level 3, where they're virtually guaranteed to have Superior Summoning
Protection-from-Good and decent SR blocks most damage summons could deal. Actually Protection-from-Good nerfs the battle field control into the ground (no grapple, most AOOs can't hit).
All it takes is one first level spell to hard counter a master summoner into using neutral melee mobs or outsiders with SLAs.
The master summoner is a one trick pony. A very good trick, but counter-able. His one trick is probably the best in the game, but can be outdone by competent non optimized full casters.
Why do people think the archetype is game breaking?
NOTE: Let's assume the person playing it is responsible and doesn't lag the game.
I see you haven't thought through this archetype much.
The point of the MS is to lag the game. It only gets easier for others to swallow if you hand out your critters. If they're not ambushed for major encounters, they pretty much roflstomp them on-demand. This is especially true after level 3, where they're virtually guaranteed to have Superior Summoning
We are ignoring the lag the game part and are assuming someone who knows what they are doing/might have ran two combat heavy campaigns that focused on combat speed and has played many summon focused characters before.
What if the creatures summoned aren't evil... or what if they wield weapons?
Edit: wait, we're comparing to full casters?
What if you're neutral? Also why would SR affect summons? I'm looking at the spell right now and it says it's not subject to SR. Just curious if I missed something there.
Level appropriate SR all but guarantee's that your summons SLA's fail.
Summons are either good, evil, or elementals. Any of them without weapons are blocked by 1st level spells(except elementals). The ones with weapons have worse to hit than ones without weapons at their level. Your summons already have trouble hitting and now you summon a sub-par hitting and the enemies AC is 2 higher.
So regardless of level a first level spell or a 3rd level circle are good counters to your primary class feature. (not to mention spells that clear the board of summons)
*We are comparing to full casters because that is the bar for game breaking. Full casters are not normally banned from tables. Master summoner is (generally for lag, but sometimes for balance reasons)
How does SR make the SLA fail?
Most SLAs have to punch through SR to work. Summons have a really low caster level.
Summon Monster is SR no, and the alignment varies.
Summon Monster is SR no, and the alignment varies.
Sigh, SR prevents SLAs from hitting. If the enemy has protection from X up he is all but untouchable to most of your summons.
EDIT: summon monster either hit with melee or SLAs. I'm not talking about the master summoner SLA.In this case a monk with potions could take out a Master summoner.
Now he still has elementals to fall back on, but at that point your versatility goes way down.
Summoned creatures that are not evil are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell Resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.
Spell resistance helps them hit you actually. It also ends for that creature if you try to hit it. Monsters do more than just hit you with aligned fist and SLAs that are SR yes...
Edit: Actually it proves versatility if you can use the elementals. You used the same option but in a different way to do something else. Does everything in your universe have a constant protection from everything and SR?
Regardless nothing here screams overpowered broken. Master summoners have easily exploitable weaknesses. The same cannot be said of other full casters and they can do more things than the master summoner who is a one trick pony. (A good trick, but one trick nonetheless)
They're usually banned because their gimmick is summoning an army. Its sort of like when the GM throws 30 mooks at you, its more of a pain than fun.
One trick that does many things. Its of course a trick casters can kinda do.
Yes but ignoring that 'pain' element. We're assuming the player knows what he's doing and keeps his turn short. What makes them overpowered? How is nova-ing an army of mooks once a day, better than a full-caster.
At least whenever I see Master Summoner is brought up it is as a bar of what is broken and overpowered right up there with a synthesis summoner.
I do play a half elf master summoner 8/druid 1 this is my typical action set up.
-With a +10 init I tend to get first or near first (18 dex with items, improved init, half elf trait)
Round 1
-I summon either air elementals from the SM2 list or something from the SM3 list. I always take multiple critters over 1 critter. They get to act immediately, I resolve this first
-My animal companion which is a 5th level ape thanks to boon companion either goes into melee or throws a boulder (throw anything feat)
-My smoke Mephit familiar lays down some sla action
-My eldion who needs to roll a 1 to fail casts something from a wond she has a handy haversack with a bunch thanks to our wizard with craft wand that's dirt cheap.
number of actions ~7
Round 2
-I cast haste repeat round 1 but with more actions
*if I want to have more sla SMs out I add more critters I can always cast summon eldion, there's also cycling the summons since there's no rule that says I can't have my summons act, summon more that dismisses them and have my new critters act.
When they speak of broken action economy and cheesy summoners they mean me. I spent all my feats into it though so it is what it is.
1st level improved init, free skill focus knowledge arcane, 3rd level feat eldritch heritage arcane, 5th level feat boon companion, 7th level feat superior summoning, 9th level feat improved familiar.
You know I use to play 3.5 and I would read boards about the Factotum. He had the ability to spam 7 spells at once, once per day. The op boards said he could nova well. But for the other 90% of the time all those extra actions couldn't do much.
So who cares if you have tons of actions? What are you doing with them? I'm sure it's fun and plays great, but by no means should it be broken.
You know I use to play 3.5 and I would read boards about the Factotum. He had the ability to spam 7 spells at once, once per day. The op boards said he could nova well. But for the other 90% of the time all those extra actions couldn't do much.
So who cares if you have tons of actions? What are you doing with them? I'm sure it's fun and plays great, but by no means should it be broken.
Generally the GMs reply is to throw more mooks at us knowing I will spend actions mopping them up before ganging up on the BBE.