Master Craftsman

[Kalandros]

So in our group, I decided to go for Master Craftsman to then take craft magic arms & armor.

"You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item."

If I understand the feat correctly, my "Craft (Bows)" will be used for the skill check required to make the items - whether its a bow, arrows or another weapon or armor, as my chosen Master Craftsman skill is what is used for the check.

Is this assumption correct?

The GM I have was a bit against it at first as he didn't see how I could enchant a full plate when I didn't know how to craft armors. Then he went on to read Magic Item Creation and told me that I still have to meet the requirement of having Craft (armor) and Craft (Weapons) to make other things

"Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft, Craft (bows) (for magic bows and arrows), or Craft (weapons) (for all other weapons)."
"Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft or Craft (armor)."

So what is the correct way to play it?
And is he pretty much just asking me to waste 2 ranks to get Craft 1 in each of those and then still use my chosen Master Craftsman rank to do the enchanting anyway?

[Quantum Steve]

PRD wrote:

Master Craftsman

Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.

Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.

Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

Reviewing Master Craftsman, the feat grants a number of things:

-A +2 untyped bonus in the chosen skill.

-You can qualify for Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item and craft items using those feats using your ranks in the chosen skill for your caster level.

That's it. That's all it lets you do. There's nothing in there that let's you ignore or change the skills used for creation as per the Magic Item section.

This line:

Quote:

You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item.

is a restriction, not an ability. It means you can only create magic items that your chosen skill can create.

If you pick Craft (Bows) you can only make magic bows, not armour, not other weapons. It doesn't matter how many ranks you put into Craft (Weapons) or Craft (Armour), you can only create bows.

So both you and your GM are wrong. The feat is quite more restrictive than either of you think.

[Kalandros]

So basically...

Master Craftsman (Craft/Profession: anything)
Craft Wondrous Items

Allows you to make ANY wondrous item, even with Craft: spoons

But Master Craftsman (Bows)
Craft Magic Arms & Armors

Only allows you to make magic bows & arrows?

See why I don't think it makes any sense?

[Harita-Heema]

Kalandros wrote:

So basically...

Master Craftsman (Craft/Profession: anything)
Craft Wondrous Items

Allows you to make ANY wondrous item, even with Craft: spoons

But Master Craftsman (Bows)
Craft Magic Arms & Armors

Only allows you to make magic bows & arrows?

See why I don't think it makes any sense?

The language used is not "Craft/Profession: anything". It's "an applicable Craft or Profession skill check". In other words, making Wondrous jewelry would require Craft: Jewelry, Wondrous clothing items would be Profession: Tailor (or Tanner, maybe, for leather items). Even the Magic Item Creation page in the PRD mentions that you would have to use Craft (Bows) or Craft (Weapons) or Craft (Armor) as applicable for the thing you were making if you were not using Spellcraft.

The point of Master Crafstman is not to allow you to make every single type of item available to you under a particular MIC feat. It's a concession that allows a skilled craftsman to create magical items applicable to his craft without having caster levels.

EDIT: Even a caster must use an applicable Craft or Profession skill if not using Spellcraft to make an item.

[Kalandros]

Guess I'll abandon that idea then, not really useful at all.

[genericwit]

It's not necessarily useless. You just have to be a little creative with your selection. Profession [tailor] lets you make clothing [cloaks, tunics, caps, leggings, etc]; craft [leatherwork] let's you make boots, gloves, belts, necklaces [leather thongs], leather vambraces, leather cloaks, leather hats, pretty much any garment made of leather; profession [scribe] lets you make tomes/manuals of +5 [at level 17, anyway] at half price [a sweet deal alone]; if you have a cool DM, you could use craft [armor], craft [leatherwork], and profession [tailor] to create virtually any slotted wondrous item [except for lenses]. Why? Custom magic item creation basically just states what slot something has to occupy, not what form it has to take. You could make an armored gorget that functions as a Gorget of Natural Armor, a pair of armored boots that function as boots of speed, armored vambraces that function as bracers of greater archery, pauldrons that function as a cloak of resistance; the same could be said for items of clothing or pieces of leatherwork [leatherwork is probably the best bet, as it can be used to make bracelets, necklaces, virtually every form of garment, belts, etc].

Obviously, it's a feat that requires some DM fiat, and you probably won't be able to make *every* type of wondrous or magic item, but it could be feasible to create a mundane class christmas tree wizard.