Reach weapon, enlarge person and 5-foot-step

[Chevalier83]

Another question that came up in yesterday's play, that I couldn't answer is the following:

If I have a PC that uses enlarge person and a reach weapon, the threat range increases to 20 feet. In my understanding, he threatens the field 10-15 feet and the field 15-20 feet. What happens, if an enemy get on the field adjacent to the PC. He probably can't just take a 5-foot-step, as a normal reach weapon fighter would do, as that doesn't bring the enemy back into a position where he can normally attack.

So: is this one flawed and the threatening area should actuall be 10-20 feet?

Am I playing the five-foot-step wrong and the player should get a 10-foot step instead (as he is large)?

Or is it working as intended and you're simply screwed as a large person with a reach weapon?

[Jeraa]

A large character with a reach weapon does not threaten squares 1 or 2, but does threaten squares 3 and 4. (With "C" being the creature.)

C1234

So if an enemy is in square 1, and the large creature takes a 5' step back, the large creature still can't attack the enemy.

And you are playing 5-foot steps correctly. Its always a 5' step, reguardless of the creatures size.

[Chevalier83]

So basically, the enlarge person + reach weapon combo screws you up pretty good?

[Jeraa]

Chevalier83 wrote:

So basically, the enlarge person + reach weapon combo screws you up pretty good?

Only if you let the creature get right up next to you.

[The Fox]

Two words: Spiked. Gauntlets.

[Solusek]

Chevalier83 wrote:

So basically, the enlarge person + reach weapon combo screws you up pretty good?

Yes, it is a significant hindrance. I would suggest your large reach weapon character get something like a Cestus or a Spiked Gauntlet that he can wield along with his main weapon for times when enemies get inside his reach like this.

[Valandil Ancalime]

"A large character with a reach weapon does not threaten squares 1 or 2, but does threaten squares 3 and 4. (With "C" being the creature.)

C1234"

Are you sure this is correct? Please cite RAW. I think it should be, does not threaten 1 and does threaten 234.

PFSRD wrote:

Reach: You use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe.

I remember reading a rule about large size doubling the reach of a weapon, but can't seem to find it. And unless this unfound RAW changes how Reach works (apart from doubling how far it goes), only the first 5' are adjacent.

[Jeraa]

Quote:

Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

15 or 20 feet away would be squares 3 and 4. Up to 10 feet away would be squares 1 and 2.

[Valandil Ancalime]

Thanks, what section was that in?

[mplindustries]

This does not screw Large creatures because every reach user should have a backup close range weapon--either a natural weapon, spiked armor, a spiked gauntlet, Improved Unarmed Strike, a boot blade, or one of those weird no hand weapons like that battle beard or whatever it is.

[Solusek]

mplindustries wrote:

This does not screw Large creatures because every reach user should have a backup close range weapon--either a natural weapon, spiked armor, a spiked gauntlet, Improved Unarmed Strike, a boot blade, or one of those weird no hand weapons like that battle beard or whatever it is.

For a monster, this is probably true. For something like a Fighter who has Enlarge cast on him though, it can really suck. My fighter has multiple feats and class skills and gold invested in his main weapon. If someone gets inside his reach and forces him to use a backup Cestus instead, he loses a lot of power. He's not helpless, but his damage and to-hit does go down by a lot.

[Jeraa]

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

Thanks, what section was that in?

The Equipment chapter. Thats the description of what a reach weapon is.

[Kazaan]

Reach is based on your natural reach. The standard reach model is you take your Natural Reach X and attack and threaten squares X units past your X reach. In other words, you reach 2X but omit the first X squares. If you had a natural reach of 4 and wielded a reach weapon, you could attack from 5-8 but not 1-4. For Whips, the reach factor is 3x and it doesn't omit your natural reach. So the same creature with 4 squares of natural reach can attack with a whip out to 12 squares (of course, dealing with the usual whip limitations if they don't have the appropriate feats).