Use Magic Device help.

[Just a Mort]

If I have a bard of 20 cha, 8 wis, can I choose to activate a scroll of breath of life as a caster level 11 oracle as opposed to a caster level 10 cleric in PFS play?

Should I have to activate as a level 10 cleric I need to make 2 checks, one for scroll activation and 1 for emulating wis score. Whereas as a oracle I need make only one. Thanks.

[asthyril]

you will need to make 2 umd checks to use the scroll.

first you will need to make a DC 30 umd check to simulate that you have the correct wisdom score to use the scroll. (15 minimum wisdom)

then you will have to make a DC 29 umd check to cast a 5th level spell, minimum level 9 caster level cleric scroll (and that is all that is available, you cannot buy scrolls as other classes if a wizard cleric or druid version is available in pfs)

[Starglim]

edit: OK, I read the skill description. To use a scroll, make a DC 20 + spell level UMD check to emulate having that spell on your class list. Since you use your class list, you also use your casting statistic. A bard with 20 Charisma can cast a 5th level bard spell. Done.

If your bard's caster level is less than the CL of the scroll, I believe you'll also need a caster level check. UMD has no usage that allows you to emulate a higher caster level.

[asthyril]

Starglim wrote:

edit: OK, I read the skill description. To use a scroll, make a DC 20 + spell level UMD check to emulate having that spell on your class list. Since you use your class list, you also use your casting statistic. A bard with 20 Charisma can cast a 5th level bard spell. Done.

If your bard's caster level is less than the CL of the scroll, I believe you'll also need a caster level check. UMD has no usage that allows you to emulate a higher caster level.

it is not spell level, it is spell caster level as UMD check, so 20 + caster level 9 for a level 5 spell = DC 29.

and since it MUST be a cleric scroll (per pfs rules) you must make a UMD check if you do not have a 15 wisdom, in order to emulate a 15 wisdom. so that is a DC 30 check.

a caster level check for casting a scroll that is on your own class list, but you are not high enough level to cast, that has nothing to do with UMD. anyone can try that with a scroll if the spell is on their list. and breath of life is not on the bard spell list.

[Gauss]

PFS doesn't even matter here for your question. You MUST emulate Wisdom if you are using a Divine Scroll. If the scroll was created by an Oracle, you must still emulate Wisdom.

CRB p109 wrote:

Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.

To be clear, if you have the spell on your class list then this is not a UMD problem. It is a caster level check.

If you think the 'Emulate a Class Feature' can be applied here, it cannot. Activating a Scroll does not require a class feature.

So, your bard would be required to make the following checks (presumes you have used read magic previously):
1) Emulate Wisdom 15. (Target number 30)
2) Use a Scroll: DC20+caster level (DC29 minimum)

- Gauss

[Eideann]

Unless this is for pfs I would say ask your DM. Personally as you can use Charisma for a Sorcerer spell I would allow Charisma for an Oracle spell, as the above quote predates the existence of Oracles, however if this scroll is bought it will actually cost more for a minimum Caster Level Oracle scroll as opposed to a Cleric scroll.

If the above quote was taken at word value then if a Witch made a arcane scroll of Cure Serious Wounds, Mass then no one would be able to cast it as it doesn't fall into the categories of "wizard", "divine", "sorcerer" or "bard" spell.

[Ilja]

Gauss: I wonder if that is intentional. While I agree RAW is clear, it might as well be a leftover from 3.5 (identical language) where all core divine casters had wisdom as casting score (as compared to PF where the paladin is cha-based).

Otherwise, by RAW, you probably wouldn't need to emulate ANY ability score at all if you wanted to cast from an arcane scroll of mask dweomer or true strike, as you could cast them as a witch or magus spell respectively and witches and magi aren't mentioned there at all.

[Joesi]

Gauss wrote:

PFS doesn't even matter here for your question. You MUST emulate Wisdom if you are using a Divine Scroll. If the scroll was created by an Oracle, you must still emulate Wisdom.

CRB p109 wrote:

Emulate an Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll, you need a high score in the appropriate ability (Intelligence for wizard spells, Wisdom for divine spells, or Charisma for sorcerer or bard spells). Your effective ability score (appropriate to the class you’re emulating when you try to cast the spell from the scroll) is your Use Magic Device check result minus 15. If you already have a high enough score in the appropriate ability, you don’t need to make this check.

That's assuming the rule you quoted was a comprehensive list instead of a list of examples.

The next person said it well with:

Quote:

Personally as you can use Charisma for a Sorcerer spell I would allow Charisma for an Oracle spell, as the above quote predates the existence of Oracles.

If the above quote was taken at word value then if a Witch made a arcane scroll of Cure Serious Wounds, Mass then no one would be able to cast it as it doesn't fall into the categories of "wizard", "divine", "sorcerer" or "bard" spell.

[Gauss]

I agree that it is an archaic reference and should be based on class but...that is the current wording and this is a Rules Forum (rather than the house-rules forum).

- Gauss

[blackbloodtroll]

I suggest an errata or FAQ.

[Just a Mort]

Thanks. Good to find out, even if it wasnt what I wanted to hear heh..2 UMD checks it is!

[Ilja]

See it from the bright side: you can activate any arcane scroll thats on the witch or magus list without needing any ability score.

[Ilja]

And as said, if youre not in pfs and is more interested in playing the game as it was meant to be played rather than sticking to the wording of the rules where they dont make sense, you can just ignore the bad wording.