Otherworldly Kimono - Spell Resistance?


Rules Questions


In addition to being an off-slot cloak of resistance +4 and increasing caster level checks by +4, The Otherwordly Kimono allows the use of an ability once per day that acts exactly like the Maze spell, and is even spelled out with identical wording (except for descriptive text), but it does NOT actually cast the Maze spell. Having someone trapped within also grants a further +2 to saves and CL checks. By the RAW I do not believe the item would allow Spell Resistance, however this seems a little too good. The item would be good as an off-slot save enhancer and granting +4 against anything CL related, but it also mimics one of the best CC spells in the game without allowing any form of magical resistance.

Other items that cast specific spells would use the CL of the item in question (IE a wand, or a magic item that has an activated ability that casts a spell usually says "As XYZ spell"), but this says it is SIMILAR to Maze, not "as the spell Maze". This means it does not cast a spell, it simply activates an ability that, as far as I can tell, is just like activating the flaming property on a weapon. You would not roll SR for a flaming weapon to deal its damage.

Basically what I'm getting at is it has no save, bypasses magical resistance of any kind, and forces a high DC ability check that even intelligence based spellcasters have difficulty overcoming unless they can Planeshift. As far as I can tell, it would even be useable on Golems or other creatures with immunity to magic, because it does not actually affect the target with magic. The item itself is magical, but the ability granted is undefined. Players can use it to remove the highest level threat from one encounter per day, giving them time to heal, cast prep spells, or set up an ambush once they have dealt with the remaining enemies, which seems a little excessive for an item costing 67k.

So my question is SHOULD it allow SR (IE are the Rules As Intended that it should) or is the item functioning as intended? If you feel it is functioning as intended, do you feel it is too good for its cost?


I would be strongly inclined to believe that the intent of the maze ability is to duplicate the maze spell, and in so doing allow spell resistance: I don't ever recall seeing a magic item grant a power that for all intents and purposes duplicated a spell without allowing spell resistance.

That said, I do understand that the item itself does not explicitly spell things out, and is marginally different from the spell.

In short - I believe it should allow SR. Still one of the better items in the game (and I don't even buy into the 'off slot' stuff)


That is my thought as well. The spell Maze is cast when creating the item, and the wording for the ability is almost exactly the same as Maze with the exception of the description of where the victim ends up. Part of the limiting factor of magic items that duplicate spells is the fact that they use the minimum possible caster level making them less impressive against creatures with spell resistance. It's a balancing factor for giving you extra casts per day, or access to spells you might not otherwise be able to cast.

In this case the item has all of the benefit with none of the drawbacks, making it an extremely impressive item, and I feel the advantages are too good for the cost. A Cloak of Resistance +4 costs 16,000gp and off slot it would cost 50% more, so 24k. Adding a 1/day 8th level spell to the cloak would cost spell level X caster level X 1,800gp. Minimum CL on Maze is 15th, so 15 x 8 x 1,800 = 216,000gp. On top of that it grants the wearer +4 to caster level checks and I'm not positive what the cost of that would be. I cannot seem to find it on the SRD. Even still, the item is already sitting at 240k by that math, but only costs 67k?

Something seems off.

Edit: Then again the magic item they link as an example of an item with a similar effect has Dimension Door 1/day and only costs 10,500gp. By that math it would cost 50,400 for minimum CL of 7th, and the item has a CL of 9th in the description. The item creation rules are VERY loosely defined and I would love to know what math they actually use when adding such spell effects to items. It's just not logical.


The pricing on the item is odd - because it doesn't seem to include the caster level check bonus - but not nearly as odd as you believe.

Aldarionn wrote:
In this case the item has all of the benefit with none of the drawbacks, making it an extremely impressive item, and I feel the advantages are too good for the cost.

It's an impressive, but also very expensive item. I'm of the mind that when an item costs in excess of 50,000gp it should probably be pretty good.

Aldarionn wrote:
A Cloak of Resistance +4 costs 16,000gp and off slot it would cost 50% more, so 24k.

I've never bought into the off slot argument (and neither did the guys at the end of the design cycle in 3.5). It's one of the great annoyances in the system to me that to receive exactly the same benefit you have to pay half again as much because you don't want to wear a cloak. That said, your math here, by the RAW is correct.

Aldarionn wrote:
Adding a 1/day 8th level spell to the cloak would cost spell level X caster level X 1,800gp. Minimum CL on Maze is 15th, so 15 x 8 x 1,800 = 216,000gp.

Your math is off. That is the cost for an at will item of maze. For a charged item (like the robe) that is usable 1/day, divide the total cost by 5 (as seen on the first line of the special heading in the creating magic item pricing chart).

Cost of 1/day maze at caster level 15 is 43,200gp.

Aldarionn wrote:
On top of that it grants the wearer +4 to caster level checks and I'm not positive what the cost of that would be. I cannot seem to find it on the SRD.

I think reverse engineered from the robe of the archmagi a few years ago I ran into either 8,000 or 10,000 for the +2 caster level checks. I may be mis-remembering though. In any case, it isn't spelled out because it is not the sort of ability that should be thrown about willy nilly.

Aldarionn wrote:
Even still, the item is already sitting at 240k by that math, but only costs 67k?

Because as noted, it doesn't cost 240,000gp. It costs either 59,200 or 67,200 (depending on whether you charge 1.5 cost for the resistance bonus.

Aldarionn wrote:
Something seems off.

Your math for one, but also the Paizo math.

Honestly, I'm tempted to say they threw in the caster level check bonus for free, because otherwise the item is almost never worth it. Shelling out 43,000+ for a 1/day ability that, while admittedly quite good, is also very limited in its application through a day. It's also possible the item originally had limitations as per a robe of the archmage (e.g. alignment or some such), and was simply never properly reprinted. As I recall it's from the end of the Jade Regent Path.

In any case, I think the item is quite good, but I don't feel it is too good, or under-priced in a general sense.

Aldarionn wrote:
Edit: Then again the magic item they link as an example of an item with a similar effect has Dimension Door 1/day and only costs 10,500gp. By that math it would cost 50,400 for minimum CL of 7th, and the item has a CL of 9th in the description. The item creation rules are VERY loosely defined and I would love to know what math they actually use when adding such spell effects to items. It's just not logical.

The cape of the mountebank has some oddities in its pricing. By the RAW at caster level 9 it should cost 12,960 (9*4*1,800 / 5 = 12,960). It seems to be priced however as though it were caster level 7 (4*7*1,800 / 5 = 10,080).


That does make more sense. Still it seems a little too good for the cost considering how it works, mimicking a spell but not actually BEING a spell.

So I guess my original question is what matters. Should it be exactly the same as the Maze spell with a minor descriptive change, or should it be an ability SIMILAR to Maze, but not the same? If option B I will likely make some changes for my games, or just outright disallow the item. If option A, I might allow it, but it still seems like they overloaded it with abilities.

Regardless, thanks for the reply.

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