There's been a lot of talk about flags/bounties/other disadvantages that go away in 24 hours.
Quite simply, will this be in-game time, or out-of-game time?
I personally favor in-game, as it makes it much harder to just duck the penalty. However, if it is in-game, a lot of these penalties should probably be a lot shorter.
In addition, in-game time will be much harder for other players to track. A merchant placing a bounty will have little way of knowing whether his bounty will last to the next day or will expire in thirty minutes--it all depends on how long the target spends online each day.
So in-game time definitely has both pros and cons. Thoughts?
Goblin Squad Member
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There's been a lot of talk about flags/bounties/other disadvantages that go away in 24 hours.
Quite simply, will this be in-game time, or out-of-game time?
I personally favor in-game, as it makes it much harder to just duck the penalty. However, if it is in-game, a lot of these penalties should probably be a lot shorter.
In addition, in-game time will be much harder for other players to track. A merchant placing a bounty will have little way of knowing whether his bounty will last to the next day or will expire in thirty minutes--it all depends on how long the target spends online each day.
So in-game time definitely has both pros and cons. Thoughts?
Penalties encourage not playing. If it is a out-of-game penalty, go log out and come back when it is over. If it is an in-game penalty, stay logged in hiding in your hideout. Alt-tab from playing something else just often enough to not be disconnected...
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Personally I'm in favor of timing being "in game", but 24 hours just seems way too short for things like an assassination contracts. I realize that they weren't really mentioned, but wanted to add them to the discussion. Bounties, to me, should last longer then 24 hours. As far as flags like thief, or criminal or attacker, they should be handled on a case by case basis, but their lifespan should be much shorter then 24 hours. I favor a varied scale depending on the severity of the act for flags like the criminal flag. Definitely though I favor game time as a unit of measure for all types of flags.
I think people take "afk" for granted here. AFK isn't especially practical, in my experience--it slows down your computer, your internet, and is just a bit risky. I'd bet quite a few people won't want to chance it.
Anyway, if nobody's going to be active while the penalties are active, why include penalties to begin with?
Oh, I got ninja'd. Or is it Nihimon'd? Technically, he didn't beat me to saying anything, so...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think part of he problem with the bounty system is the timing as well, but also the exclusivity of it and a few other issues as well.
1. I believe bounties should be issued at the settlement level. This not only makes more sense, but it will cut down on the overall number of repeat bounties ( infinite bounties). A crime committed against an individual merchant is likewise against the settlement he or she belongs to. When a bounty is initiated by an individual, it will frequently exceed the cost if what the merchant lost in the first place.
2. Bounties should last until they are collected. The bounty contract may change hands more frequently, but the bounty contract itself should remind in affect until it is collected.
3. Bounties should have the option of "Dead or Alive" and not just dead. This will allow for a different reward structure for which ever way the victim wishes the perpetrator to be punished. This has more of a role playing benefit then a game mechanic, but that is valuable all on its own.
I have actually posted a thread requesting a reexamination of the potential for non lethal combat in PFO, which will provide several different opportunities for system changes.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The best penalty in my mind would be along the lines of "You cannot perform that specific action as effectively until you have done some number of unrelated things."
Yeah, it can be gamed, but the core concept is 'you lost, now do something else for a bit'. Any penalty should also decay over time, so that when someone sees it, gets discouraged and logs out, they don't see that negative reinforcement the first time they log in.
This thread isn't really supposed to be another bounty thread--we already have two of those. I want to discuss in-game vs. out-of-game durations, if there's a discussion to be had.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Back on track... 24 hours real time is my vote for flags, as opposed to 24 game hours, which could be up to 12 or more days or even a month or more.
Although I can only think if one flag that is 24 hours in duration. But, for contracts, I believe they should have a duration until they are collected on, or discarded by the issuer or bounty hunter / assassin.
To clarify, I do not think 24 hours would be a suitable []in-game time[/i] counter. It would have to be reduced if it were made in-game (save for some counters, like for bounties, which I think should last longer).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Murderer and brigand flags etc could be made in-game time imo and shortened so that they would have more consequence. The contracts are a bit more difficult a subject I think.
Would there be exclusive owners of contracts? Renewing the contract ie bounty once it has been collected is an essential mechanic in my opinion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To clarify, I do not think 24 hours would be a suitable []in-game time[/i] counter. It would have to be reduced if it were made in-game (save for some counters, like for bounties, which I think should last longer).
What about 24 hours of Game Time, which would be about 6 hours of real-time?
Great. Now my head hurts.
For the sake of my mental stability, let's call that "Golarion Time". "Game Time" or "In-Game Time" will be how long the player spends in the game, and "Real Time" is obvious.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Because I may do a few Bounty Hunting contracts myself, maybe with my alt, I'll weigh in on this topic again.
I don't see why there needs to be a time limit on a bounty to be collected. In EvE I had a bounty on me for nearly 4 months. It finally got paid out last week. To say a Bounty Hunter only has 24 hours to find the target is just giving the mark an incentive to play his other toon for a day. With real time training, his main is actually not losing anything from being logged off. He can even role playing it like he is laying low fir a little while.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I recall thinking the time-limit for eg bount-hunter was based on:
1) Energy/Time of the contract acceptance for x1 player: So they spend that window strongly motivated to complete the contract - after which a new player may take on the contract if it's not completed.
2) After several days if the offender is not disruptive they come off the "kill list" (sic) anyway, so you want some intensity of bounty-hunting during that time
3) I think the contract is limited to x1 person atm, so it's more controlled for some reasons I'm not too sure about eg economic, gaming it? etc?
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I think the time limit on the bounty contract is ok if the above apply, but the duration that the enemy is on your "kill list" so that you can issue bounties on them, possibly could be longer, if the target can alt off or stay in secure lodgings during the real-time 24hrs to ware off and log-off equally. If it's game time it appears that that character has to think more carefully about what they can risk knowing a bounty-hunter is near their location. IE ideally a bounty combat should be more frequent outcome than the target avoiding by hiding low, I think? Therefore more emphasis on game time?
Though maybe I've not considered something obvious in thinking that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll add my voice to those who don't understand why there's a time limit on Bounty Contracts. "Revenge is a dish best served cold" and all that.
on the one hand: +1
on the other hand:
meh, it's just another variable
if the designers come to the conclusion that time limited penalties (however the time is counted) doesn't sufficiently discourage unwanted behaviour...
they can just feed the system with a new value
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was reading this thread and it occurred to me that maybe the 24-hour bounty contract is intended to make it happen timely so the killer being hunted can associate the punishment with the crime?
I dunno, just thought I'd run it up the flagpole and see if anyone saluted.
I think it makes it difficult for a bounty contract to get completed. But, then again, it does only give one thing for the Bounty Hunter to focus on for the next 24 hours.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think it makes it difficult for a bounty contract to get completed. But, then again, it does only give one thing for the Bounty Hunter to focus on for the next 24 hours.I was reading this thread and it occurred to me that maybe the 24-hour bounty contract is intended to make it happen timely so the killer being hunted can associate the punishment with the crime?
I dunno, just thought I'd run it up the flagpole and see if anyone saluted.
So glad that I am not planning to be a bounty hunter. Imagine if the timer is real time. Spend 24hrs straight looking for someone who may not even be online...
Stephen did say they were looking at which things should pause when offline and which should stay on.
I wonder would the bounty only run when both the contracted bounty hunter and the target are both logged in?
These are exactly the questions I'm asking.
It seems to me "logged-off" time should have no effect at all on the game, but there may be practical reasons to avoid that. Still, if a person can avoid the danger just by not playing for a day, that's quite possibly what they'll do.
And I know people say that that in itself is a penalty. Maybe it is, but that's no comfort to the bounty hunters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In Eve the bounties last until they are collected. The criminal can actually have multiple bounties, from different individuals. When a bounty hunter kills the target, he collects all if the bounties. Bounty Hubters will check to boards and go for the highest bounty they feel they can collect, but it is even better as more bounty is added on their target.
I had a bounty on me for five months, stopped even thinking about it. Finally lost a ship the other week and he collected the bounty. Why five months? I had a 100k bounty on me, meanwhile the top bounty was a few hundred million.
It's a good system, the most wanted get hunted down the most, but in the end the bounty almost always gets collected on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In Bludd's example from Eve, it sounds like anyone can collect. Not necessarily so in PFO.
One difference, if I follow PFO's system correctly, is that the poster of the bounty will specify who can collect the bounty (a person, CC, etc.). I would like a bit more info on this part...how specific is the identification process. Can you give the bounty to only one character, only a specific group, a certain alignment, anyone in a specific settlement, etc.
Also, I think I would rather not have one kill of a bountied bad guy = pay out of everyone's bounty on that target. If they're being a big enough pain to earn multiple bounties, I would want them to have to worry about multiple deaths. I'm sure this could be abused in some way, but then, what are you doing that is earning you that many people's animosity?