Here's my question -- alchemists at 8th level get an extra attack it seems.... and Feral Mutagen enables two claw attacks and a bite attack.
So... how many attacks do I have now?
3 claws and a bite (from the extra attack?)
2 claws, a bite + 1 attack of any other kind? (weapon, bite, claw?)
No extra attacks at all?
How does this go?
Where are you seeing this extra attack?
If it's from the BAB chart, that's iteratives, and they are handled differently than natural attacks.
If you're going for sheer number of attacks, you would use a one handed weapon, use your two iterative attacks with it, then bite/claw as secondary natural attacks.
I don't know what an "iterative is", good sir? (I merely see level 8 for alchemist seems to give an extra attack...
...Feral mutagen gives me 2 claws and a bite... so can I get an additional claw attack from this?
Why or why not?
Iterative Attacks : When using your BAB, if you can subtract 5 from it, and still have a positive non zero number, you get another attack. So, for example, 6/1, or 7/2, or 11/6/1. This is an iterative attack, because they are attacks made based iteratively off BAB. You must use a Full Attack action to use iterative attacks.
Natural Attacks : When you use natural attacks, you make one attack with each of your natural attacks at your maximum BAB. So if you have claw, claw, bite, you make as a Full Attack action, three attacks at full BAB, one for each of your claws, and one for your bite.
Combining Iterative and Natural Attacks : If you want, you can combine iterative and natural attacks in a single round. To do so, you have a few restrictions. (1) You cannot use any limb for both natural and iterative attacks (for example, you can't slash with a sword in your right hand, and use the claws on your right hand, in the same round, because you're holding a sword and can't use the claws). (2) All natural attacks are treated as secondary attacks, and take a -5 penalty on your BAB.
So, if you had claw, claw, bite natural attacks, and you had a sword in your right hand and wanted to make iterative attacks, and you have a BAB of 6/1, and a final melee attack bonus of 8/3, then you'd make the following attacks as a full attack action.
Sword +8, Sword +3, Claw +3, Bite +3
So four attacks. You can't use your other claw attack because it's on the same limb as your sword is.
Here's your crash course on BAB, iterative attacks, and natural attacks.
Meet Speary McSpearson, alchemist at large.
For whatever reason Speary doesn't care about anything other than stabbing goblins with his spear.
So at level one, we look at the BAB (base attack bonus) progression for alchemist and see that is bonus is 0. So he gets to attack once per round and adding 0 as a bonus on top of stength, feats, and whatever else.
Speary impales a lot of goblins and levels up to level 2. Now his BAB is 1. So when he stabs goblins, Speary adds 1 from his BAB.
This continues the same way for the first seven levels, as his BAB slowly increases.
However, when he gets to level 8, his BAB is 6. Every time your BAB increases by over five you can make an additional attack with a BAB bonus of -5 your lowest existing bonus (eta: mdt said this bit better above) as a full round action. So if Speary can take a full action against a goblin, he'll make one attack with a BAB of 6 and a SECOND attack with a BAB of 1. At 15th level he'll have a BAB of 11, so that adds on a third attack and he'll be using BABs of 11/6/1.
We call those kinds of multiple full-round-attacks iterative attacks.
Natural attacks are something different.
Lets that that right before Speary got to level 8, he got mauled by a goblin's pet bear, and was so impressed he wanted to do the same thing. So he took the feral mutagen discovery.
When he takes the mutagen, gets two claws and a bite as natural attacks. Natural attacks work differently than iterative attacks.
When you make a full round attack, you attack with ALL the natural attacks you have. If the attacks are called primary attacks they get your full BAB, if they are secondary they get your BAB-5. The claws and bite are both primary, so at level 8, Speary could make 3 attacks (bite/claw/claw) with a BAB of 6. (primary/secondary also affects strength bonus for damage, I think secondary halves it)
But Speary really likes his spear, and doesn't want to stop stabbing goblins while using feral mutagen. Fortunately, he can combine his iterative and natural attacks in order to stab, bite, and claw all in one round.
He can do this by holding his spear in one of the hands with claws on it. He can't use that claw natural attack since the hand is busy with the spear, but he can use the bite and other claw. Speary is at 8th level now, so he gets his BAB of 6 and 1 for the iterative spear attacks, and then he attacks with all available natural weapons, the bite and free claw. However, when you mix iteratives and natural atttacks, all the natural weapons count as secondary even if they're normally primary so the bite and claw only get a BAB of 1 (and a strength damage penalty).
Make sense?
No Ximen, I don't understand... namely because you explain the mechanics but don't give me an answer so I can be sure I arrive at the same number and understand your logic.
By Mdt's reckoning I get 2 "Spear" attacks, 1 claw, and one bite.
To which I must ask, do you Agree Ximen?
and both of you, what happens if I cast haste?
Haste you pick one attack and get an extra one of those. I think anyway...
You can get a 4th attack if you can manage to get a gore somehow. If you do you get Bite/Gore/Claw/Claw at full bab. Secondary attacks will be at a negative 5 if you get any. So for instance if you were an assimar with the wing attack feat thingy you'd get Bite/Gore/Claw/Claw at full bab, but then Wing/Wing at -5.
If you mix a any natural attacks with a manufactured weapon(such as a sword) your natural attacks all become secondary and take the -5.
No Ximen, I don't understand... namely because you explain the mechanics but don't give me an answer so I can be sure I arrive at the same number and understand your logic.
By Mdt's reckoning I get 2 "Spear" attacks, 1 claw, and one bite.
To which I must ask, do you Agree Ximen?
Yes. And for the record I did say that here:
Speary is at 8th level now, so he gets his BAB of 6 and 1 for the iterative spear attacks, and then he attacks with all available natural weapons, the bite and free claw.
and both of you, what happens if I cast haste?
Is there a part of the haste spell you'd like clarified? It does a few things, included an extra attack during a full-attack with any weapon.
Yes, a Haste effect gives an extra attack (if you use it for that) with any weapon you want at full BAB. So, in my example, sword bite or claw. Your choice.
Note, if you're using a two-handed long spear, you'd lose your claw attacks completely, since you'd need both hands to hold the spear and make attacks with it.
So as I understand it, with haste and iterative attack I can have...
Weapon, weapon (iterative), Weapon (haste), Claw, Bite = 5 attacks.
Why not Claw, Claw, Bite,(feral) Claw (iterative) + Claw (haste?) = 5 attacks?
I'd rather not add a hand weapon because my character's main weapon is his claws and It totally messes up my style and vision of the character taking up a weapon.
Well just don't use a weapon... Its cheaper for enchanting to not use the weapon anyway, your AoMF will enchant all of your natural attacks. Helm of the Mammoth Lords(I think thats what its called...) will give you a gore for even more overkill.
Natural attacks are usually just tacked on, or exclusively used. You can't really use a claw and sword evenly in the game(unless its clawblades, but that changes them to manufactured) Trust me, its much less complicted to just stick with your primary natural attacks.
You do not get iterative attacks with natural weapons, so if you went full natural with haste you would only get Claw, Claw, Bite, and could throw in another one of any of those attacks, so a total of 4
IF you through in even one weapon attack, ALL your natural attacks would then be secondary, so -5 to hit and 1/2 STR for damage
Natural attacks are either all used, or are secondary to weapon attacks. You can't itterative with natural weapons per the rules.
You can do though, claw, claw, bite, bite (haste) if you wish. That's legal.