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Can objects and Constructs be affected by positive and negative energy?
And:
Do positive and negative energy count as 'energy attacks' for the purposes of applying to Hardness (i.e., the damage is halved then Hardness is subtracted)?
In my upcoming game session I'll be having a negative-energy charged creature making attacks to break through walls, so the result may be important. Below is the information I've collected for each case.
1. Can objects and Constructs be affected by positive and negative energy?
Constructs and objects themselves don't seem to have any rules dictating that they are unaffected in their own descriptions. Construct traits in the Bestiary, page 307 nor do Smashing An Object in CRB, page 173 list an immunity to these effects. Golems may have Immune to Magic, but there are many other Constructs such as Animated Objects or Soulbound Dolls that have no such immunity and with which the interaction doesn't seem so clear to me.
However, a great deal of positive and negative energy effects seem to have inconsistent targeting regarding non-living creatures:
* Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. It doesn't seem to affect either Constructs or objects, as they are neither living nor dead.
* Seemingly in contradiction to this, the Destruction alternate channeling from Ultimate Magic seems to reinterpret Channeling:
Destruction: Heal—Creatures gain a channel bonus on attack and damage rolls against objects, CMB for sunder attempts, and Strength checks to break objects until the end of your next turn.
Harm—Unattended objects take full channel damage (not half ).
* Spells such as chill touch and cure light wounds have a Target of "creature touched", but have descriptions that begin with "A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures" and "When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +5)" respectively. It seems internally inconsistent.
Enervation has a Target of ray, and works on living creatures. In this case, the paragraph further narrows the effect instead of contradicting it -- there isn't necessarily any internal inconsistency, unless paragraphs in chill touch and cure light wounds are just descriptive text that don't have game functions, in which case enervation would work against any target, not just living creatures (since the same logic would apply to all spells).
Inflict light wounds, Harm, and Heal affect creatures without regard to whether they are living or not. There are no internal inconsistencies with these, but although it seems that the cure and inflict spells are supposed to mirror each other, cure light wounds may work on living creatures only yet inflict light wounds seems to work on any creature.
2. Do positive and negative energy count as 'energy attacks' for the purposes of applying to Hardness (i.e., the damage is halved then Hardness is subtracted)?
The book says this about energy attacks:
"Energy Attacks: Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object’s hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.
However, 'energy attacks' are not defined in the book. We can see that Fire is an energy. What else?
Resist Energy helps:
This abjuration grants a creature limited protection from damage
of whichever one of five energy types you select: acid, cold,
electricity, fire, or sonic.
The simplest (but not necessarily correct) solution is that in the absence of an explicit list, this spell description includes the definition.
However, positive and negative energy do have 'energy' in the name, which is fairly compelling. Perhaps they weren't included in resist energy not because they aren't energy attacks, but because that would be outside the scope of the spell. Effects like death ward already replicate that effect, and are more thematically-suited to divine characters.
Further, perhaps an exhaustive list of what counts as energy types is not preferable or possible for Pathfinder. If a definite list were made in the Core Rulebook, that would tie the hands of future authors and render them less able to write up new energy types such as Hellfire.
Expanding on this question, is Force an energy type? If an object were attacked with Force damage, would the damage be divided before Hardness is applied? Or do Force spells merely signify that it is 'untyped' damage that also works well against incorporeal creatures, and wouldn't be divided any more than a strike with a mace?
I look forward to your input.
1. Since Channel Energy can affect only either undead creatures or living creatures, it would depend on whether a construct was either "an undead creature" or "a living creature".
IMO, it is neither, and so Channel Energy cannot affect them (except as noted below). Remember that constructs cannot be healed by normal means (instead requiring magic like Make Whole), so if they were living creatures, why couldn't channeled energy heal them? Simple answer is that it can't by virtue of the fact that they aren't "living".
Obviously, objects are neither undead nor living, so cannot be affected unless they are both animated AND haunted (which makes them vulnerable to channeled energy as if they were undead).
2. I'm honestly not too sure about this one. IMO no, channeled energy is not technically an "energy attack", as defined by this context, but since things with hardness tend to be objects and constructs, which I don't believe to be affected by CE at all, its kind of moot whether or not it gets divided in half prior to not affecting the target.
I've certainly never run a game or seen a game run where Channeled energy could affect objects/constructs, and as such have never seen the interaction with hardness come up.
If you can me a page number for where it says constructs cannot be healed by normal means (instead requiring magic like Make Whole), I think that would simplify my problem greatly : )
If you can me a page number for where it says constructs cannot be healed by normal means (instead requiring magic like Make Whole), I think that would simplify my problem greatly : )
I was going off memory. Turns out it doesn't technically preclude healing via spells like CLW, but IMO its implied. Anyway, don't have a page number but the SRD says, under the section for construct traits, that constructs:
Cannot heal damage on its own, but often can be repaired via exposure to a certain kind of effect (see the creature's description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. Constructs can also be healed through spells such as make whole. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Cons truct
EDIT - also note that Golems, which are a specific category of constructs (albeit the most frequently encountered IME) are altogether immune to magic except for conjurations (since those don't directly target the golem, but rather its environment). As such, they couldn't be healed via magic unless the spell contained a construct/golem specific exception like make whole does.
Back of the Bestiary. Its part of the Construct type.
Cannot heal damage on its own, but often can be repaired via exposure to a certain kind of effect (see the creature's description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. Constructs can also be healed through spells such as make whole. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
Also, its implied by the various Cure Wounds spells. They only heal living creatures, and constructs aren't living.
When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.
So (most*) healing magic is useless, and natural healing doesn't work.
*The Heal spell doesn't specify it heals only living creatures. It says it heals creatures, so it should work to heal a construct.
EDIT - also note that Golems, which are a specific category of constructs (albeit the most frequently encountered IME) are altogether immune to magic except for conjurations (since those don't directly target the golem, but rather its environment). As such, they couldn't be healed via magic unless the spell contained a construct/golem specific exception like make whole does.
Not quite true. Golems are immune to any spell that allows spell resistance, regardless of its school. If there was an Evocation spell that didn't allow spell resistance, it could still affect a golem. Forcecage, for instance. Its an evocation spell that does not allow spell resistance, so effects golems normally.
*The Heal spell doesn't specify it heals only living creatures. It says it heals creatures, so it should work to heal a construct.
That's interesting. Never noticed that before, though it is still positive energy.
*The Heal spell doesn't specify it heals only living creatures. It says it heals creatures, so it should work to heal a construct.That's interesting. Never noticed that before, though it is still positive energy.
Likewise, Harm doesn't specify it only hurts living creatures either. So it should damage constructs.
That's it in a nutshell -- they don't seem to be inherently immune to positive or negative energy, but it seems implied by many of the spells' targeting. Many of the spells don't work on nonliving creatures; many do allow for it in the block on top, but describe that they work on living or undead creatures; and there' even confusion across the line of cure and inflict spells, which otherwise usually mirror each other in effect.
I suppose that the strictest reading would dictate that you can affect Constructs with (generally) miscellaneous positive and negative energy effects, but a lot of the specific spells and effects (channeling, most cure spells) can't be used against them.
I guess that isn't unheard of -- Magic Missile can't be used to break a lock, even though Force damage can usually be used against objects. But it also seems like a hassle keeping track of how Constructs can be affected by Heal but not Cure Moderate Wounds, how they can be hit with inflict moderate wounds but (possibly) not enervation.
We'll see. Somebody still might come in with a hard answer, so I'm not hitting FAQ just yet.
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The animating force behind constructs is an elemental force conjured into the inanimate body prepared for it by the construct's creator. The animating forces behind living creatures and undead are positive and negative energy, respectively. This is why "like" energy heals and "opposing" energy harms. Constructs exist outside that system and therefore are unaffected by both types.
The animating force behind constructs is an elemental force conjured into the inanimate body prepared for it by the construct's creator. The animating forces behind living creatures and undead are positive and negative energy, respectively. This is why "like" energy heals and "opposing" energy harms. Constructs exist outside that system and therefore are unaffected by both types.
Which is fine as a houserule, but is that ever actually stated anywhere? Its not in the construct type. And there are positive energy effects in the rules (Heal) that can heal constructs, and negative energy effects that can harms them (various Inflict Wound spells).
The animating force behind constructs is an elemental force conjured into the inanimate body prepared for it by the construct's creator. The animating forces behind living creatures and undead are positive and negative energy, respectively. This is why "like" energy heals and "opposing" energy harms. Constructs exist outside that system and therefore are unaffected by both types.
Golems do seem to be animated by elemental spirits; but I can find no such designation for Constructs in general.
In fact, I can think of a creature in an AP that is invested with a spiritual fragment of its human creator, which could leave it a valid target for positive energy effects by the logic of your post.
As far as that goes, I don't see anything specifying that elementals cannot be affected by positive and negative energy. I know I've allowed elementals to be cured in the past because I had read something that convinced me to treat them as 'living creatures', although now I can't find it.
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I think this question is related enough to be added to this thread as it gets to the same basic idea of how magic affects regular creatures also affects construct creatures. If it should be posted separately, I apologize.
Constructs are immune to Ability Damage and Drain, but does that also mean they are immune to spells that enhance ability scores: Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom, etc.? Presumably Bear's Endurance would not because constructs have no constitution score to enhance, but what about the rest?
Logically it seems that if you can't decrease those abilities, the reverse would also be true, but I can't find any evidence in the rules that substantiates that at all.
I think this question is related enough to be added to this thread as it gets to the same basic idea of how magic affects regular creatures also affects construct creatures. If it should be posted separately, I apologize.
Constructs are immune to Ability Damage and Drain, but does that also mean they are immune to spells that enhance ability scores: Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom, etc.? Presumably Bear's Endurance would not because constructs have no constitution score to enhance, but what about the rest?
Logically it seems that if you can't decrease those abilities, the reverse would also be true, but I can't find any evidence in the rules that substantiates that at all.
If you are immune to ability damage/drain, you can still benefit from ability enhancements, either in spell form or magic items. Constructs are not immune to all ability modifications, only ability drain or ability daamge. (Bear's Endurance could still be cast on a construct, it just has no effect.)
Golems, on the other hand, are immune to the stat-enhancing spells. Golems are immune to any spell that allows spell resistance, and the stat-enhancing spells allow spell resistance. Stat-enhancing items, however, would work normally.