Touch Attack or Not Touch Attack and Vital Strike

[Komoda]

In the Carrion Crown AP there is a creature:

Spoiler:

I am not the GM and I forget the name but basically it is an ooze that has a melee attack listed as:

Melee Disintegrating Touch +15 6d6

Does this count as a touch attack or is it required to state ...+15 touch?

Flavor text indicates it dissolves flesh and bone but make no mention of armor.

This is the only attack for the creature. The creature also has Vital Strike. If the above is a touch attack, can Vital Strike apply to a touch attack?

Thanks

[Kazaan]

According to D20SRD, Disintegrating Touch is a Supernatural ability and allows you to perform a Touch attack. I'd say that qualifies it as a SU rather than just a natural attack so, while it does target Touch AC, it cannot be combined with Vital Strike. To use Vital Strike, it'd have to use a standard attack action and, since it has no listed natural attacks, it can just make an unarmed strike (read bodyslam) with US damage appropriate for its size. Per reading, I'd say it just affects the body of the target and any gear persists (though, it may need a light dusting).

On a second reading, though, the Supernatural ability may just trigger when it touches anything and it would normally perform a melee touch attack to deliver it or could deal that damage as an add-on to a US. In that case, I believe a Huge Unarmed Strike deals 2d6 damage so if it Vital strikes, it does the following (targeting normal AC, of course):

2d6 (base damage) + 2d6 (Vital Strike) + 6d6 (Disintegrating Touch) = 10d6
By contrast, he could target touch AC as a "use supernatural ability) action but he'll only deal the 6d6.

[Rithralas]

The creature is an Incoporeal Ooze, and the attack allows a DC22 Fort save for half damage.

[Komoda]

I see your logic of the slam but I am surprised that it is not in the entry It is not a stat block but rather a full page creature entry like the Bestiaries.

The entry I found in the D20 SRD under Umbral Blot is completely different. The 6d6 from the ooze version is the only damage whereas the Umbral Bolt is an extraordinary save or die ability. I don't see another entry in the D20SRD.

[RedDogMT]

So, if you are not the GM, why are you asking? My gut reaction to the question is to think that the GM used Vital Strike with Disintegrating Touch and you are looking for ammunition to make an argument with him...Hopefully I am just paranoid. :)

As to the original question...there are a number of posts on the paizo forums about whether touch attacks can be used with Vital Strike, but I was not able to find anything definitive.
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This is my logic:
I see attack damage as having two components: weapon damage and other effects. Vital Strike adds to the weapon damage. Touch attacks only deliver the other effects, so there would be no benefit from applying Vital Strike to a touch attack.

However, if the attacker were to make a normal attack that would inflict weapon damage along with the effect, such as with a claw or fist, then Vital Strike could be used on the claw/fist.

Again, this is my interpretation.

[Komoda]

LOL, No, no nefarious plans. I missed the fight as I was not at that game. It was brought up for my opinion, however, when I returned at a later game.

I stated I wasn't DM to show that I don't have access to the material.

I tend to agree with you about not adding Vital Strike to Touch Attacks.

And that is where this creature becomes interesting. It only has the one attack, which it names as Disintegrating Touch. But it doesn't fit the normal format for a touch attack as it does not say ...+15 touch. Then it has the feat Vital Strike.

So it is a creature with:

1) An attack named "Touch"
2) But no "touch" listed after the melee roll
3) It has Vital Strike
4) No other attacks

[Christopher Van Horn]

The attacks are touch because it is incorporeal, it cannot make a normal melee attack that is not touch because it cannot physically affect objects. Vital Strike should work as it is listed as an attack and although it has an alternate effect (like a wraiths negative energy damage instead of a normal slam attack) it should be able to vital strike with it. It is listed as an SU ability because it is prevented by AMF and similar effects. The attack it makes is just a supernatural thing because its touch is just that creepy.

[Kazaan]

Hmm, just seems kind of excessive to vital strike for 12d6 damage every single time (cause it has no other attack).

[wraithstrike]

Vital Strike is legal here. The attack is a normal attack with a rider affect basically.

[Komoda]

Quote:

Hmm, just seems kind of excessive to vital strike for 12d6 damage every single time (cause it has no other attack).

This is what got me thinking something didn't seem normal.