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Some friends and I have been playing a custom home game system for a while but will be playing more and more Pathfinder as we get ready for GenCon. Tonight's game generated some questions.
1. Can you jump an open pit as part of a charge? I don't see anything in the charge rules that prevents this.
2. In which square does an AOO triggered by movement happen? To clarify, a combatant between two enemies moves out of the flank and provokes two attacks of opportunity. If he dies as a result of those attacks, does he fall in the square he was standing in before the move started or the first square he moved into? I tend to think that he provokes by leaving a square, not "having left" a square, and that the AOO interrupts the movement out of the starting square.
3. How do you determine the Reflex save DC for a fireball cast from a necklace of fireballs? The fireball in question was a 2d6 fireball. In the session we went with a DC of 14 because, 10 + spell level of 3 + 1 because the minimum Int necessary to cast fireball is 13.
Thanks for your help,
Tam
1. Can you jump an open pit as part of a charge? I don't see anything in the charge rules that prevents this.2. In which square does an AOO triggered by movement happen? To clarify, a combatant between two enemies moves out of the flank and provokes two attacks of opportunity. If he dies as a result of those attacks, does he fall in the square he was standing in before the move started or the first square he moved into? I tend to think that he provokes by leaving a square, not "having left" a square, and that the AOO interrupts the movement out of the starting square.
3. How do you determine the Reflex save DC for a fireball cast from a necklace of fireballs? The fireball in question was a 2d6 fireball. In the session we went with a DC of 14 because, 10 + spell level of 3 + 1 because the minimum Int necessary to cast fireball is 13.
1. I don't see anything preventing it either and would allow it. Word of caution though, once allowed, players may try to claim they can jump over low-lying intervening difficult terrain or anything else dangerous in order to charge - like jumping over a square full of caltrops.
2) The AoO does occur as the target is leaving the square and, if it keeps him from completing the task, would leave him in the square where the AoO occurred.
3) You've got the save DC right. Magic items generally do involve pretty low saves unless they specifically list a higher DC for some reason.
1. You can jump as part of any movement, including a charge, however charge states:
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge.
So if there's anything blocking your charge (like a pit) you can't charge in the first place, so you can't jump over it.
2. In the square you left, not the suare you're entering.
3. Correct.
if there's anything blocking your charge (like a pit) you can't charge in the first place, so you can't jump over it.
This.
Is a pit considered part of the "difficult terrain or obstacles" that denies a charge?
yes
Is it so under the effects of Air Walk? Is it so for a creature with a fly speed?
What about a pit of water? Is it so, even under the effects of a Water Walk spell?
What if you are incorporeal?
If your mode of movement isn't hindered, then you're not hindered. Land movement is hindered by pits.
Also, jumping isn't technically a straight line.
Well, a PC under the effects of the Water Walk spell can walk on Lava, but may want to jump over it, to avoid damage.
Could this PC charge?
Yes, since lava is not hindering terrain for someone under the effects of water walk. He could even jump over the lava during his charge.
You can jump during a charge, you just can't charge through squares containing hindering terrain or obstacles.
Sometimes, determining "difficult terrain or obstacles" may be difficult.
I guess, but that's not a problem that's unique to charging.
As a GM, you just have to make a call, a square either hinders or blocks movement, or it doesn't.
Clearly it only blocks movement to one who can't successfully move through the air above the obstacles within it, such as a big enough jump check ;)Sometimes, determining "difficult terrain or obstacles" may be difficult.I guess, but that's not a problem that's unique to charging.
As a GM, you just have to make a call, a square either hinders or blocks movement, or it doesn't.
And if you fail that jump check?
You couldn't have charged in the first place, time paradox ensues, universe destroyed.
If you fail the jump check the charge fails mid-stride, with appropriate consequences according to the obstruction. No universes were harmed in the making of this interpretation.
'appropriate consequences' just got deep into GM fiat territory.
What kind of 'standard' consequences could one expect on a failed charge? Such a situation is not described anywhere in the rules.
Can you continue your movement? It's just difficult terrain after all.
Can you still make the afforded attack at the end of a charge?
Do you still get the -2 to AC if you don't attack?
When you start to have to make multiple rulings on the fly due to a rule interpretation it's time to either get out the house rule pen and make a better rule, or revisit the interpretation.
I suppose you're right, this is leaning into house rules vs interpretation. I'll just say that I don't see it very fair to screw the player out of the chance to make a jump check over obstacles during a charge and leave the details out of this Rules thread.
Honestly, as much as I love to argue rules minutia, I did exactly the same thing. The rule of cool just won out with me. I also let characters jump to attack enemies out of reach, it just seems cooler to me, and not very unbalanced.
We have always played it simple, failed charges: if for some reason, a charge-in-progress can't continue according to charging rules, the action just aborts then and there, and the acting player can go on taking the actions still available at that point. Interrupted charges are not very common, but they do happen as a result of immediate or readied actions.
The whole jumping while making a charge idea is very counterintuitive. If it may be done, why would the condition of the terrain be a reason to forbid the charge action from being initiated altogether? Because that doesn't make sense, we disallow it unless someone has an ability that specifically allows it. We rationalize this by assuming that one needs to keep ones legs pumping the whole time to build up the momentum required to gain the benefits bestowed by a charge, i.e. the double move and the attack bonus.
Is it still rule of cool if the enemy does it?
A lion is charging the party and the wizard who readied his action casts a pit spell in its path. Normally the charge would be stopped. Now if you allow jumping over pits as part of the charge the lion can do that, too. It pounces on the wizard and kills him.
Not so cool.
The difference in times for 100 meters sprint and 110 meters hurdles do show that there's a benefit when keeping ones legs pumping. That's because jumps need to be anticipated and you need to pace yourself to time them, slowing you down. That benefit can be the thing that makes the difference between a charge and a double move that has you waiting for the next turn before you get to attack.
Either that, or your activities have earned you the real-life version of one of the abilities that allow you to jump while charging.