Specifically, how many resources (hp, spells, consumables, etc.) should a typical party use on average for a CR appropriate fight (i.e. a CR 9 encounter for a party with an APL of 9)? The answer can be in terms of fraction, percentages, raw numbers, whatever.
I know that this is an extremely abstract question, but it would still be nice to get a ballpark idea. This doesn't have to do with a specific example, I just want a good idea of what to expect when building/running adventures.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Approximately 20-25%. Wizards of the Coast designed the CR system in a way that a party would be able to handle 4 level-appropriate challenges per day before needing to rest. So A level 9 party should be able to manage 4 CR 9 encounters in a day, so each level appropriate encounter should take up roughly 1/4th of the party resources (HP, spells, etc.).
As far as I know, Paizo didn't change that for Pathfinder.
Specifically, how many resources (hp, spells, consumables, etc.) should a typical party use on average for a CR appropriate fight (i.e. a CR 9 encounter for a party with an APL of 9)? The answer can be in terms of fraction, percentages, raw numbers, whatever.
I know that this is an extremely abstract question, but it would still be nice to get a ballpark idea. This doesn't have to do with a specific example, I just want a good idea of what to expect when building/running adventures.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Equal encounter in 3.5 was 1 level 1 Fighter (CR 1) for a Party of 1s levels.
Equal encounter in PF was 1 level 2 fighter (Cr 1) for Party of 1s levels.Either way it should be a easy encounter incurring 20% of resources.
So it should use some resources (whether health, spell slots, consumables, etc) but not be a big deal since you should be able to hadle multiple encounters like that in a day (on average).
Thanks guys! After looking into this more, I realize this is a common question, but does anyone have any tips on increasing the number of encounters an adventuring party can handle each day while still making the encounters challenging?
usable wands, npc cohort (cohort, NOT PC level, not glory hog), and use different terrain. it is harder to fight in broken terrain (difficult/hills/obstructions/cover) than it is on an open field.
It should be around 4, but that assumes average players. When you have good players they can do a lot more than 4, at especially at higher levels. I don't really worry about it any more.
If encounters are difficult because they burn more resources, then to allow the PCs to endure more encounters, you need something in play that allows them to replenish lost resources.
The easiest form of this is in regard to hit points. A wand of cure light wounds, allied cleric and the like can bring the PCs back up for more fighting. You can also heal stuff like ability damage, cure poisons, remove curses and whatnot.
The real trouble is that PCs have access to lots of effects that can't be replenished so easily. There are traits, feats, class features and magic items that only function X times per day, and having an allied cleric isn't going to let you use your Stunning Fist an additional time.
I have seen an adventure path with an effect that allowed the PCs to replenish their spells, but it was just the once. Our party almost didn't even use it because we couldn't identify it and we were suspicious. But that's not something you can stick in every dungeon.
Perhaps to offset the lack of special abilities once or twice, you could pepper dungeons with unique limited resources.
Potions almost fit the bill here -- they're consumable magic items that anybody can use. The problem for our case is that they don't often give you new abilities, they usually just give you bonuses. Further, there's nothing urging the party to fight on -- okay, you got a potion, awesome. So the logical thing do so is sleep, recover your hit points, spells and special abilities, and you'll have a potion on top of all that! The only way that would really work as designed is if there's something already forcing the players to continue.
Wands are closer to the mark, although repeatedly encountering wands with a single use is a little contrived. The problem there is that not everybody can use a wand. Even characters that invest in Use Magic Device can't use it reliably until they've been focusing on it for a few levels.
In a reversal of our problem, it may very well be that we award the players a unique consumable item to make up for their expended special abilities ... then they fight on, don't use the item, and sell it. Different GMs will have different perspectives on that. Some wouldn't have intended it to influence their wealth, while other GMs will see that bonus gold as a reward for good luck and playing well.
Still, one idea I really like is a monster from Bestiary 3. It's an aquatic creature with a tie to the elemental plane of water; once it's dead, if you can pass a skill check (Alchemy?), then its bladder acts as a Decanter of Endless Water before becoming nonmagical. That sort of idea seems like the perfect solution to me for situations where just hit points won't keep the party going.
I have been tracking this lately and over the past 3 homebrew adventures I made, with the encounters averaging out to APL (average party level), my players have averaged 6 encounters per session (actually 5.7 something, but I rounded up). Here ar the contributing factors:
1. the players are not optimizing their builds. This means they're actually a bit weaker at combat, which in turn slows them down while they consider tactics rather than just full attacking all the time.
2. we use a variant healing rule called Strain/Injury. Essentially it makes a lot of damage sources deal damage to you that isn't life threatening and therefore heals quickly over the course of a few minutes of downtime. This offsets their slow, tactical fights by saying "ok, it took us a long time to beat that last fight, but after a quick rest and refit, we're all back to full health and ready to party!"
The biggest thing that seems to limit the amount of encounters is real life time. In order to challenge the players tactically I usually have multiple opponents, hazards or traps all mingled together. My party of 4 APL 4 PCs tore a single goblin barbarian 5 to shreds last game in 2 rounds; those same PCs spent 46 minutes dealing with a small clearing filled with a Fog Cloud effect and a pair of hell hounds.
I've reasoned it out like this: 6 fights, plus investigations, roleplaying and general looting is roughly about all my players can handle in a single, 6 hour session. For that reason I generally design a small adventure that I want them to get all the way through in one session to contain 12 encounters which average out to APL.
Big Trouble in Little Shooter there makes a great point - a lot of how many combats your party can handle has to do with resource management. One of my PCs still hasn't gotten to recognize when they're fighting mooks and when they're fighting things that require finite resources.
Now potions, scrolls, wands and consumable wonderous items are fine and have their place in extending the adventuring day. Another way to do it is with ambient effects, exotic materials, unique monsters, etc. The example of the water fish above is one thing I'm talking about. Other suggestions could be as follows:
Fey Revel Echoes: the fey have congregated here for centuries, hosting revels and making merry. Not all of these encounters have ended well for mortals however and the intense emotions left behind have soaked into the environment creating an "echo" of the events. Mechanic: have the PC(s) take part in some spectral event reflecting a challenge; a skill contest, a test of Dexterity or Constitution, or perhaps a feat of magic. The participants are re-living some past moment of revel held here. If they pass they are granted a unique power or bonus while if they lose they are inflicted with some condition. Ex: the PC dwarf gets sucked into one of these moments and suddenly finds himself standing in front of a tree stump topped with dozens of cups of mead. "DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!" chant a dozen sprites while a satyr leers at him next to his own stack. He and the satyr roll contested Fort saves or Con checks (GM's choice) and if he fails he's sickened for the next hour; if he succeeds he is pleasantly buzzing and can spit a fiery breath weapon once over the next hour (3d6 damage; Ref save DC 14 for 1/2)
Lightning Stones: this area is scattered with crystals that absorb ambient, magical storms. These events infuse the stones with charges of lightning but also make them unstable. Harvesting them requires a skill roll (Craft: alchemy, Spellcraft, Knowledge: Arcana, whatever) but if done successfully they can be hurled for 1d6 electrical damage as a thrown weapon (too unstable to be shot from a sling).