If you could only choose one between stone call or create pit, which would it be and why?
I ask because I'm having trouble deciding on which I want to get at next level, but I know it will be one of them. Note: I can only pick one of them, the other sort of has to be Web (has to do with my spell school).
So, what do you guys think?
pit spells rule.
I always pictured the pit as rounded, so no corners to use.
10x10 is the definition of a square. 10radius or 20diameter would be the definition of a circle. Im sorry, this is a square. :)
- Gauss
Since it's an extra-dimensional hole, does that mean that if you had really dumb enemies, more than 4 of them could get caught in it?Dark Immortal,
You create a 10-foot-by-10-foot extradimensional hole with a depth of 10 feet per two caster levels (maximum 30 feet). You must create the pit on a horizontal surface of sufficient size.Since a wall limits the horizontal surface available you cannot create it under a wall and get around the wall that way.
- Gauss
Yes, you could have more than 4. While technically there is no limit the GM should put a limit since bodies can fill the space eventually.
- Gauss
I vote for stone call.
1) It has a wide area effect, and screws up charges.
2) It does unsoakable damage.
3) You never need a survival check in the woods again. "We need food!" *casts stone call* "There, just watch your step and collect the squirles, rabbits, and other small wildlife." :-)
Create Pit also screws up charges if you ready an action to do so.
- Gauss
One final note regarding Stone Call vs Create Pit: Saves. Create Pit has a saving throw etc. Stone Call does not. Use a Wand for Stone Call and get Create Pit. Then you have both. :D
- Gauss
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Well, thus far most of our encounters have been outside, save for one underground quest and a very quick bout inside a kobold cave. I'm fairly certain that sometime soon (after we get next level I would think) we'd be trying to take over a castle run by bandits.
I could see Stone Call being useful for the castle take over, especially if there is a surplus of bandits within the area, not to mention it would help slow them while we took pot shots at those that are left standing.
Create pit however, as others have mention would be useful outside, but even more so inside and one doesn't always need a huge area of effect. Less damage, but potentially take the enemy longer to get at us and helps me control the battlefield which is the first thing I'm going for in my build, however stone call helps control the battlefield as well.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. It's about even for me now.
Just curious since I'm on this thread anyways. What happens if 2 difficult terrains overlap? Like, if I had cast Stone Call making that area difficult terrain, then cast a different spell like entangle or something else that gives difficult terrain? I'd assume nothing special and that they'd still move at the speed a normal difficult terrain would force them to.
Playing Kingmaker, huh? I'm GMing it now - one of my players used Stone Call and rolled 11 for damage, staggering half the damn bandits in the fort.
I know I said Create Pit before, but since you are going to be outside a lot where people can simply move around the pit, you might be better off with Stone Call. I'd say it depends on the rest of your party - are they more ranged or melee? Because if they're going to have to walk over the difficult terrain to get to the enemy anyway, you're better off with Pit.
I do like the idea about just getting Stone Call on a wand, though - that makes a lot of sense.
Remember with Create Pit you can ready it to cast when an opponent moves. That way, even if they make their save, they have to choose between moving again to get away from the edge, or doing what they were going to do and risk falling in.
PS: Multiple difficult terrain effects don't do anything special typically.
Reynard, if they are using a charge action the creature cannot continue the charge if you place the pit properly. Thus, the movement is stopped in it's entirety.
- Gauss
In the Pathfinder 1001 Spells Book there is a 5th level Mobile Pit trap spell that is moveable each round.. plus the pit can be 100 feet deep (10d6 damage)... My Druid has used this spell a couple of times already and its very useful (especially if more than one person falls into the hole and then next round you move the hole to another victim and they fall ontop of the first person climbing...
I believe it can be a 5x5x100 foot deep pit or a 10x10x50 foot deep pit.... I like to do the 100 foot one.
Just to chime in again, it also depends on the class. Since you're playing a wizard, It MIGHT actually be better to get Stone Call. But I'd REALLY suggest just getting that in wand form. All of the Pit spells are really, really excellent for spontaneous casters because they can just use them whenever it's most convenient, and don't have to plan on it ahead of time.
Yes stone call is better as a scroll or wand. Since the main variables are not dependant on you.
Another thing to consider is how min/maxed your character is. If your prime casting stat is +1 a dc 13 pit is pretty sad. If it is 5+ that is 20%+ more successfull.
My only problem with the wand is that it would only be a 3 caster lvl if I'm doing the math right...that only gives you 3 rounds of difficult terrain which doesn't suck but isn't going to last through all encounters...
Chaos Scion, pay more money, have a higher caster level.
Level 2 spell @ caster level 3 = 90gp/charge
Level 2 spell @ caster level 5 = 150gp/charge
Level 2 spell @ caster level 10 = 300gp/charge
This works out to 30gp per round.
OR, get it with Extend Spell and have the duration be 10rounds for:
Level 3 spell @ caster level 5 = 225gp/charge
This works out to 22.5gp per round.
- Gauss
I vote for stone call.
1) It has a wide area effect, and screws up charges.
2) It does unsoakable damage.
3) You never need a survival check in the woods again. "We need food!" *casts stone call* "There, just watch your step and collect the squirrels, rabbits, and other small wildlife." :-)
Did I ever tell you about the time our crazy ass Gnome Sorcerer dropped a Stone Call on a pack of 8 dogs and killed them all instantly?
T'was indeed hilarious to picture all of us walking down the street chatting when suddenly Arkanis goes "Puppies!" and crushes them all at once before anyone else even registers they're there.
I miss Arkanis.
Make sure you have some kind of area effect damage spell for dealing with swarms - Stone Call is one way of getting that.
Matthew, most swarms are easy to deal with. Lamp Oil and a torch. Or, for a some extra coin, alchemist's fire. :)
- Gauss
Doesn't create pit work vs swarms, too?
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Do spells that prevent dimensional travel also prevent create pit from working?
You can't use them on demi-planes (which are by definition extra-dimensional spaces).
Extra-dimensional items don't work inside them. You can't get anything out of your handy haversack when inside the pit.
It's probably a GM call whether you can dimension door/step out of them.
ZomB, that is incorrect. The Paizo staff have stated that Extra-dimensional is not the same as extra-planar and that yes, you can teleport etc out of an extra dimensional space if it has an opening. You can also use them on other planes of existance since they are an extension of the existing plane you are on.
Personally, I think of it as a TARDIS. "Its bigger on the inside!" That does not make it another plane of existance.
- Gauss