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Hey guys.
I am just here to voice the need for dense forests, fog and dark nights. Traveling or fighting under such conditions should be different than on sunny days. When watching the tech demo i realized how dull the world would be if it always looked like that. I haven't had much experiences with such things in mmos, except somewhat from the recent The Secret World, but i heard stories about dark nights in EQ for example. How would you like this to be implemented in PFO?
Typically light effects aren't done very well. It'd be nice if PFO figured out how to do so. It would make cantrips like light worth having.
Well you can kiss the dark nights good by. Ryan explained it like this, because if they added a day/night cycle, some players could manipulate their client to enable them to see in the darkness, because of that, they won't have it in PFO. The fog is still up in the air, meaning I've not heard. Hopefully they will be able to add dense forests and places where wild growing things make passing through difficult.
Goblin Squad Member
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There was a longish thread somewhere having to do with stealth where Ryan identified there won't be real dark darkness in the game, even inside dungeons.
Except during power outages I guess.
The issue was argued over pretty heavily.
I have not seen a statement identifying whether there will be dusk, twilight, night, or weather yet. I think they are still focussed on getting a playable area built. Then maybe they will see what is feasible.
Will I be able to cast light on an arrow and fire it?
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Well you can kiss the dark nights good by.
Nope. There will be darkness, and stealth. It just won't be everything people want it to be.
Here's where Ryan explains why Darkness isn't worth building into the game design: The Dark of Night.
And here's where Ryan explains how these same principles apply to Stealth: Curious: Stealth Mechanics.
Note that both of those posts are merely pointing out the technical challenges associated with Darkness/Stealth. Neither actually says they won't be in-game.
From No Useless Class Archetypes:
There will absolutely be Stealth.
As Ryan pointed out, we just can't put any of the calculations on the client, it'll all have to be server-based. We'd like to do some more granular things with it than is normal for MMOs, but we need to get deeper into our server tech to work out what's possible.
Well you can kiss the dark nights good by.Nope. There will be darkness, and stealth. It just won't be everything people want it to be.
Here's where Ryan explains why Darkness isn't worth building into the game design: The Dark of Night.
And here's where Ryan explains how these same principles apply to Stealth: Curious: Stealth Mechanics.
Note that both of those posts are merely pointing out the technical challenges associated with Darkness/Stealth. Neither actually says they won't be in-game.
Huh, I went through the thread from where you linked to the end looking for a post from Ryan. I remember reading that because of the potential for cheaters, they were only going to have a dimming that simulates night. But I can't find that info. I wish we could search for a keyword by a specific person. The OP referenced darkness in EQ, the dimming "night", if they add that, isn't anywhere near EQ type darkness which is why I posted what I did. I wasn't trying to mislead.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... Huh, I went through the thread from where you linked to the end looking for a post from Ryan. I remember reading that because of the potential for cheaters, they were only going to have a dimming that simulates night. But I can't find that info. I wish we could search for a keyword by a specific person...
That is why we need to extoll and uphold Nihimon as our players reference.
I wonder if he is available in a Kindle version?
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I wish we could search for a keyword by a specific person.
You can. I keep Ryan Dancey's, Lee Hammock's, and Stephen Cheney's posts bookmarked to make doing just that easier.
I wish we could search for a keyword by a specific person.You can. I keep Ryan Dancey's, Lee Hammock's, and Stephen Cheney's posts bookmarked to make doing just that easier.
I've seen that page numerous times, usually I click right through it. Thank you for pointing it out :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think there has been comments to the positive in terms of a day-night cycle that is "out-of-phase" ie when you log on habitually at a preferential time, the day-night cycle will point will shift gradually so that you can experience different game-times over a period of real time. I would likely be something Unity can easily do (I remember Castle Story kickstarter created a day-night for their rts-build'em-floating-castles-up game), so if it's not in immediately, then it would come eventually. But I'd assume it'd be in the get-go.
The idea of fog is pretty cool. I think it should be in and for atmospheric reasons - definitely. Weather overall is a great way to make the world feel more dynamic and different: Fog being one of the best atmospheric effects imo.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wish we could search for a keyword by a specific person.You can. I keep Ryan Dancey's, Lee Hammock's, and Stephen Cheney's posts bookmarked to make doing just that easier.
It's a ruse! Nihimon is really a Super-computer so advanced it has taken on a personality ;) Curse you DARPA!
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's a ruse! Nihimon is really a Super-computer so advanced it has taken on a personality ;) Curse you DARPA!
I am not Mr. Rabbit. There is no need to revoke any certificates.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hopefully they'll be able to get good atmospherics in that are still able to evoke a sense of drama, even if aren't able to do real limitations on vision.
Also, looking forward to see if they are able to impliment some mechanical effects (say modifiers on ranged combat or movement) based on atmospheric conditions or terrain. It would add alot to the game, IMO, if they were able to work something along those lines.
Hopefully they'll be able to get good atmospherics in that are still able to evoke a sense of drama, even if aren't able to do real limitations on vision.
Also, looking forward to see if they are able to impliment some mechanical effects (say modifiers on ranged combat or movement) based on atmospheric conditions or terrain. It would add alot to the game, IMO, if they were able to work something along those lines.
Do you mean like having arrows flight distance shortened during periods of rain? Having rain put out flaming catapult missiles?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know about rain/wind affecting visibility or targeting outside of specific spell effects, but it would be cool. What I really hope we have though is movement penalties for bad terrain. Not allowing charging over bad terrain, reduced movement speed, and so on. I just don't know how much coding work it will require, so it will be hard to say when or if it will be in the game.
I don't know about rain/wind affecting visibility or targeting outside of specific spell effects, but it would be cool. What I really hope we have though is movement penalties for bad terrain. Not allowing charging over bad terrain, reduced movement speed, and so on. I just don't know how much coding work it will require, so it will be hard to say when or if it will be in the game.
I really hope they can implement terrain effects without much trouble as well. In large scale battles it would be so cool to have say, a unit atop a hills missile attacks would get bonuses to damage when firing on a unit at the bottom of the hill. And a unit trying to charge another across rocky rough terrain would suffer penalties to movement and maybe even initial attack momentum.
These effects should also apply outside of large battles. Icy weather, intense drought like conditions, rainstorms. I would be great to see them in a MMO. I can recall some games that had rain, fog and such, EQ was one I believe that. Included them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One can separate from display darkness and mechanic darkness. Can't do much about display darkness, people, who like to cheat the atmosphere the game will simply brighten the monitor, or alter the colours. But there is very little they can do about mechanical darkness that exists on the server, where the real interaction takes place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know about rain/wind affecting visibility or targeting outside of specific spell effects, but it would be cool. What I really hope we have though is movement penalties for bad terrain. Not allowing charging over bad terrain, reduced movement speed, and so on. I just don't know how much coding work it will require, so it will be hard to say when or if it will be in the game.
I totally agree, especially in aPvP game intending formation combat. Many lessons offered by Sun Tsu only make sense where terrain defines the battlefield.
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Is it bad the first thing I thought of when seeing this post was driving my wagon through a dark forest with a low ground fog with only the lights on my wagon cutting through the darkness? The leafless trees skeletal hands clawing at the moonless night...
Makes you shiver, doesn't it?
Weather, dense forests, dark nights and terrain effects would certainly enhance the play for those who can really get into it. And isn't that the target audience? The die-hard dreamers, the imaginative enthusiasts, the dedicated fans of mythos?
Aren't we those the game intends to reach?
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I don't know about rain/wind affecting visibility or targeting outside of specific spell effects, but it would be cool. What I really hope we have though is movement penalties for bad terrain. Not allowing charging over bad terrain, reduced movement speed, and so on. I just don't know how much coding work it will require, so it will be hard to say when or if it will be in the game.I totally agree, especially in aPvP game intending formation combat. Many lessons offered by Sun Tsu only make sense where terrain defines the battlefield.
I'm looking forward to being able to apply all of "The Art of War" in PFO. He puts a lot of emphasis on the use of spy's and deception. I've never played a game that had large scale unit combat that ALSO had spy's (rogues) as a playable role. To be able to utilize spy's in conjunction with his other principals of combat is going to be extremely, extremely cool! :D I'm also going to have lots of fun with the Assassins possibly severing bind point threads putting the victim further away from the battle then normal. I see commanders cussing and screaming bwhahaha ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know about rain/wind affecting visibility or targeting outside of specific spell effects, but it would be cool. What I really hope we have though is movement penalties for bad terrain. Not allowing charging over bad terrain, reduced movement speed, and so on. I just don't know how much coding work it will require, so it will be hard to say when or if it will be in the game.I totally agree, especially in aPvP game intending formation combat. Many lessons offered by Sun Tsu only make sense where terrain defines the battlefield.
Agree. I would like to see gorges or passes that make good spots for ambush, unclimbed cliffs and such.