Alas, I am a bit slow -- Cavalier Mount question

[Genard Blackpen]

I am confuzzled about all the things that go into a Cavalier's mount, and would love help in compiling the stats for PFS-legal (initial) horse mount for a level 1 human Cavalier (using CRB, APG, and Bestiary, but not the new Animal Archives book, at least yet).

I used Search, but didn't see a post putting it all together -- if I missed one, would love a link to it. Thanks in advance!

[lilpoppe]

You use the stats found in the druid class in the core book.

[SCPRedMage]

lilpoppe wrote:

You use the stats found in the druid class in the core book.

As lilpoppe said, your mount is an animal companion, with your cavalier level as your effective druid level.

That being said, your mount also receives Armor Proficiency (Light) as a bonus feat.

[Poimandres]

That part I caught.

And that combat training includes the animal handling tricks (and that the armor proficiency replaces spell sharing).

Do I now apply these to the Bestiary CON, STR, etc? How would one do this for the heavy warhorse?

THAT'S why I asked about the gestalt, not the pieces (which I knew); but thank you.

[redward]

If it helps, the Hero Lab stat block for a level 1 Cavalier's horse looks like this:

Quote:

Animal Companion

Horse
N Large Animal
Init +1; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +1
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 10, flat-footed 13 (+1 Dex, -1 size, +4 natural)
hp 13 (+4)
Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +1
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Offense
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Speed 50 ft.
Melee Bite (Horse) +3 (1d4+3/x2) and
Hooves x2 (Horse) +3 x2 (1d6+3/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 16 (20 vs. Trip)
Feats
Tricks Attack [Trick], Combat Riding [Trick], Come [Trick], Defend [Trick], Down [Trick], Guard [Trick], Heel [Trick]
Skills Acrobatics +1 (+9 jump), Fly -1, Stealth -3
Languages
SQ combat riding [trick]
Other Gear You have no money!
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Special Abilities
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Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.

What's missing (and available for selection) is the level 1 feat, 1 additional trick and 2 skill points.

[SCPRedMage]

Poimandres wrote:

Do I now apply these to the Bestiary CON, STR, etc? How would one do this for the heavy warhorse?

You don't; you use the stats for the Horse animal companion on page 54 of the Core Rulebook. Simply use the stats in that list, give it the number hit dice (hit points for an animal companion is (4.5 + Con mod) * number of hit dice, rounded down; first hit die isn't maximized), skill points, and feats listed on table 3-8 on page 52. The Bestiary isn't involved in the process at all.

As far as tricks go, since the horse has Int 2, it can learn six tricks, plus the number of "bonus" tricks listed on table 3-8. The cavalier mount feature states that your mount is "always combat trained", so it has the "Combat Training" general purpose training, which is six tricks. Since this isn't referred to as a "bonus" trick, it counts towards the number of tricks your mount can know.

I recommend using the one bonus trick you get at first level to take the Attack trick a second time; otherwise it'll only attack humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, and animals.

[Poimandres]

Many thanks.

[Poimandres]

*Reads own reply, then thinks the two word reply may seem curt*

Nota bene:
Being new to Pathfinder I'd considered a single Cavalier level as a splash for another class (though I love the capstones for core and basic classes, I have old 3.5 habits and wanted to indulge in this one character by mixing it up); also, I just plain liked the flavor of a mounted warrior of Qadiran or Keleshite ancestry turning to other studies; my inspiration was the real world courtliness and chivalric behavior accorded to Ṣalāḥ al-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Saladin) in the Third Crusade.

redward and SCPRedMage confirmed what I initially surmised: if I splash a single level, then it makes more sense to put my initial mount out to pasture immediately and rely instead on standard mounts. But I thought I might be reading it wrong. I guess I wasn't!

[SCPRedMage]

Poimandres wrote:

redward and SCPRedMage confirmed what I initially surmised: if I splash a single level, then it makes more sense to put my initial mount out to pasture immediately and rely instead on standard mounts. But I thought I might be reading it wrong. I guess I wasn't!

If you're only going for a one-level dip for cavalier, you're not going to get much out of it for mounted combat, especially if you're ditching the animal companion mount. All you'll really get is Challenge, the level 1 Order features, and Tactician (bonus Teamwork feat that you can share to the party once a day). Unless you're really sold on those, you might consider just going Fighter, and waiting until you can afford a warhorse.

[Poimandres]

Other than flavor, that was mainly it: the armor proficiencies, skill distribution, and (secondarily) being able to share Precise Attack, albeit only once per day.

Well, and the extra 2 hit points at first level! (I know that some splash Barbarian for the maxed d12 at level 1, but that seems like an odd juxtaposition for a magus or wizard, which is where I am leaning.)

[kinevon]

Poimandres wrote:

Other than flavor, that was mainly it: the armor proficiencies, skill distribution, and (secondarily) being able to share Precise Attack, albeit only once per day.

Well, and the extra 2 hit points at first level! (I know that some splash Barbarian for the maxed d12 at level 1, but that seems like an odd juxtaposition for a magus or wizard, which is where I am leaning.)

Go Urban Barbarian for the Controlled Rage, and bump Dex (or Str for the Magus, maybe) with it. +4 to Dex for a few rounds per day isn't a bad thing. Especially since you don't lose the ability to use skills and such in a Controlled Rage. Extra Rage or Berserker of the Society for a few extra rounds of Rage...

And, if things get desperate, you can still use the traditional Barbarian Rage if it seems appropriate.

[Poimandres]

I'll think about it. I was trying to avoid splashing Barbarian, but Urban sounds interesting -- wait, they don't get medium armor proficiency (though they otherwise look very interesting!).

[CanisDirus]

Dragoon Fighter archetype is awesome for a mounted build - you lose the "fighter feat of your choice" but gain Skill Focus Ride and Mounted Combat feats instead :)

[Poimandres]

CanisDirus wrote:

Dragoon Fighter archetype is awesome for a mounted build - you lose the "fighter feat of your choice" but gain Skill Focus Ride and Mounted Combat feats instead :)

Whoa --

If I decide to give up Tactician, that IS a perfect splash for any outdoor use!