Goblin Squad Member
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Based on the crafting system as they describe, a true Master Crafter would need a skill level if 300 in all steps if the process.
That includes mastering the gathering, smelting and the finally the actual crafting of the item. I would think that because skill training is done in real time, and not from grinding craft levels, this process could take months.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe the intention, Bludd, is for crafters and harvesters to be separate, and are even separate archetypes (Commoner for harvesting, expert for crafting). I guess after maxing one they could do the other, but if they ARE full archetypes as suggested, it would take 2.5 years each.
I'll admit, I'll bet it'd be a lot shorter if you only focus on one type of crafting, which probably could be done in only months.
Khaiden, since all goods in the game past the most noob stuff to start the game off will be player made, I think it's fair to say players are the ONLY driving force of the economy.
I believe the intention, Bludd, is for crafters and harvesters to be separate, and are even separate archetypes (Commoner for harvesting, expert for crafting). I guess after maxing one they could do the other, but if they ARE full archetypes as suggested, it would take 2.5 years each.
I wonder... In Eve some skills have a shorter training time then others. More minor skills don't tqke as long. I imagine all the skill sets that relate to what we think of as a class, now known as a role would take 2.5 years equally, but say harvesting might not take as long to raise?
It's just a thought really. I've seen nothing that makes me think this might be the case.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe the intention, Bludd, is for crafters and harvesters to be separate, and are even separate archetypes (Commoner for harvesting, expert for crafting). I guess after maxing one they could do the other, but if they ARE full archetypes as suggested, it would take 2.5 years each.
I wonder... In Eve some skills have a shorter training time then others. More minor skills don't tqke as long. I imagine all the skill sets that relate to what we think of as a class, now known as a role would take 2.5 years equally, but say harvesting might not take as long to raise?
It's just a thought really. I've seen nothing that makes me think this might be the case.
Why would harvesting not take as long to raise as crafting or refining? You feel it is easier to forge the sword than it is to find the highest quality material and defend it? All while managing the camp? Some skilled Harvesters could conceivable run multiple camps at once. This would require immense skill of the character and the player.
Just my thoughts thoughts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why can't we find REAL crafters that take there craft so seriously that that is all they do.
Thats exactly the case in EVE and I fully expect to see the same in PFO considering what weve seen/heard so far. I even expect to see full time merchants who do nothing but buy low and sell high. You dont HAVE to be an adventurer although I expect most people will want to pick up at least a few basic combat skills along the way to defend themselves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why can't we find REAL crafters that take there craft so seriously that that is all they do.Thats exactly the case in EVE and I fully expect to see the same in PFO considering what weve seen/heard so far. I even expect to see full time merchants who do nothing but buy low and sell high. You dont HAVE to be an adventurer although I expect most people will want to pick up at least a few basic combat skills along the way to defend themselves.
I expect there will be some who engineer profit buying high and selling higher.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would hazard a guess that training the simple harvesting skills won't take to train but they will be prerequisites for the skills needed to set up a mine, logging camp or farm. That way anyone can quickly train the skills necessary to pick up the odd piece of fallen oak or exposed tin that's lying on the ground.
However, if you want to get a large amount of oak in a short amount of time you'll need to train the relevant skills, find the best spot for the camp, set it up and run the camp.
They've already said that harvesters are going to want to hire combatants to protect their camps, mines and farms which to me implies if you're a harvester you're not going to be a very good combatant. At least not very soon.
This is one thing that I find very intriquing about the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As far as I'm aware, depending where you are in the escalation cycle, a single person might be able to hold down one camp. But if the escalation cycle has progressed far enough it will require a group. more still if you want to run multiple camps in an area. But as they said, it'll take about 2.5 years to max 1 skill. Therefore, if you max harvesting, It you wont have combat skills, however if you become more generalized, you could be decent at both.
I believe the intention, Bludd, is for crafters and harvesters to be separate, and are even separate archetypes (Commoner for harvesting, expert for crafting). I guess after maxing one they could do the other, but if they ARE full archetypes as suggested, it would take 2.5 years each.
I wonder... In Eve some skills have a shorter training time then others. More minor skills don't tqke as long. I imagine all the skill sets that relate to what we think of as a class, now known as a role would take 2.5 years equally, but say harvesting might not take as long to raise?
It's just a thought really. I've seen nothing that makes me think this might be the case.
Why would harvesting not take as long to raise as crafting or refining? You feel it is easier to forge the sword than it is to find the highest quality material and defend it? All while managing the camp? Some skilled Harvesters could conceivable run multiple camps at once. This would require immense skill of the character and the player.
Just my thoughts thoughts.
My using harvesting was just as an example.
They've already said that harvesters are going to want to hire combatants to protect their camps, mines and farms which to me implies if you're a harvester you're not going to be a very good combatant. At least not very soon.This is one thing that I find very intriquing about the game.
Operating a harvesting camp will attract creatures in the surrounding area. One of the latest blogs even mentioned that the longer you have a harvesting camp, the larger the creatures that spawn to try and destroy the camp. There's also the player bandits to lookout for. They would like nothing better then to find a, or a few, players in the area tied to a camp. Then once you've filled the caps storage space and exhausted the material you were harvesting, you'll have to get that material to your settlement, or to a warehouse you've rented space at. Likely this will require you to arrange a caravan to transport the material. This would be a perfect time for bandits to hit you.
So the mention of hiring guards for one of these possibilities, or all of them isn't an indication of your characters lack of combat skill, it's a realization that you will need help defending ourself, and your newly acquired material.
If you've trained in say 1h sword techniques up to say 5th level of skill. You will be just as effective having split your training with harvesting as a player who trained up to 5th level in 1h sword technique yet didn't train in harvesting.
What makes PFO different then the theme park PvE games is you'll need the help of other players to accomplish tasks like the above harvesting camp. Many things could be done alone, but it'll be much easier with help. Settlements provide the pool of players that you can coordinate with so that several people can combine and all benefit from activities such as harvesting. The CC (guild) I'm in plan on setting up a settlement that focuses on crafting and helping our members, and residents establish places to craft and sell their wares. We plan on organizing gathering groups that include harvesters, guards and other classes to help with transporting raw materials from gathering camps to our settlement so
the material can be refined and used to craft goods. I'm really looking forward to PFO for many reasons, it's going to be a blast!
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Goblin Squad Member
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As far as I'm aware, depending where you are in the escalation cycle, a single person might be able to hold down one camp. But if the escalation cycle has progressed far enough it will require a group. more still if you want to run multiple camps in an area. But as they said, it'll take about 2.5 years to max 1 skill. Therefore, if you max harvesting, It you wont have combat skills, however if you become more generalized, you could be decent at both.
Not 2.5 years for one SKILL, 2.5 years for one ARCHETYPE/ROLE.
An role is made up of many skills put together.
Ergo, if commoners are all harvesting, maxing a commoner might mean reaching max in all harvesting skills (mining, logging, farming, ect).
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Goblin Squad Member
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As far as I'm aware, depending where you are in the escalation cycle, a single person might be able to hold down one camp. But if the escalation cycle has progressed far enough it will require a group. more still if you want to run multiple camps in an area. But as they said, it'll take about 2.5 years to max 1 skill. Therefore, if you max harvesting, It you wont have combat skills, however if you become more generalized, you could be decent at both.Not 2.5 years for one SKILL, 2.5 years for one ARCHETYPE/ROLE.
An role is made up of many skills put together.
Ergo, if commoners are all harvesting, maxing a commoner might mean reaching max in all harvesting skills (mining, logging, farming, ect).
It's really hard to say for Gathering (Commoners), but I think at least for the Experts (Crafters) you will eventually have to pick a specialty and go down that route for your 2.5 years.
Now, they may design it where you might get two specialties in for the 2.5 year program, but I don't think you will craft in 'all' areas, even if they technically all fall under one 'archetype' (Expert).
Otherwise all '20th level' Experts are going to be master Blacksmiths/Weaponsmiths/Structural Engineers/Chefs/etc. And that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Besides the fact if you have to choose one (maybe two) specialties, it makes your specialty more needed and more social interaction will be required, as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As far as I'm aware, depending where you are in the escalation cycle, a single person might be able to hold down one camp. But if the escalation cycle has progressed far enough it will require a group. more still if you want to run multiple camps in an area. But as they said, it'll take about 2.5 years to max 1 skill. Therefore, if you max harvesting, It you wont have combat skills, however if you become more generalized, you could be decent at both.Not 2.5 years for one SKILL, 2.5 years for one ARCHETYPE/ROLE.
An role is made up of many skills put together.
Ergo, if commoners are all harvesting, maxing a commoner might mean reaching max in all harvesting skills (mining, logging, farming, ect).
It's really hard to say for Gathering (Commoners), but I think at least for the Experts (Crafters) you will eventually have to pick a specialty and go down that route for your 2.5 years.
Now, they may design it where you might get two specialties in for the 2.5 year program, but I don't think you will craft in 'all' areas, even if they technically all fall under one 'archetype' (Expert).
Otherwise all '20th level' Experts are going to be master Blacksmiths/Weaponsmiths/Structural Engineers/Chefs/etc. And that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Besides the fact if you have to choose one (maybe two) specialties, it makes your specialty more needed and more social interaction will be required, as well.
In Eve any one skill path can be taken to level 5 in somewhere between 1 week and a month or two.
However many advanced skill paths have prerequisites that you complete other skill paths. Many items also require certain skills.
For example to wear Dwarven Full Plate may require Dwarven Plate III however to train Dwarven Plate III you need to have trained Full Plate V which in turn requires you to have both Basic Armor Skills V and Gauntlets III.
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Goblin Squad Member
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First, Neadenil - remind me not to try to wear Dwarven Full Plate...that looks way too much like work.
As for specializing, especially given all the other skills a person might want to obtain (for adventuring, PvP, etc.), I can see people specializing quite a bit in harvesting and crafting. Training all the skills to make the very best swords and the very best armor might be just too time consuming.
Personally, I love to harvest, but I know I'm never going to want to deal with camps. I won't get as many resources at a time, but I don't plan to have to train great combat skills to defend camps either.
Especially in the first months of the game, I can see people having to be very thoughtful about what they're training first, second, etc. To have all the bases covered in those first months, you're really going to want to coordinate what skills each person is training in your CC.