Ok, so I'm trying to get ahead of the curve and looking at what I can do for my Cavalier in a Kingmaker PF game once his Horse dies (natural or combat causes).
I was looking at the Large Cat option under the Druid Animal Companion section and was wondering how Spiked Barding would factor into a 7th level Tiger's Grab action.
Relevant 7th LV Stats = STR 23(+6), BAB +4, Large(-1 ATK, +1 CMB)
Please correct em if I'm wrong, but Grab means that he/she can attack with Bite (+9 ATK Melee, 1d8+6 Damage) and start grapple as a free action (+11 CMB +4 Grab bonus = +15).
Rake states that it grants 2 free Claw attacks (1d6+STR) on a pounce and is also usable in a Grapple.
Armor Spikes says they can deal extra damage in a Grapple (1d6 for large spiked armor).
My question is this: If my tiger grabs a target with it's Bite attack, on the next round does it deal Bite damage (1d8+6 piercing) To maintain the Grapple; And then Rake (2x 1d6+6 slashing) + Armor Spike Damage (1d6 piercing) on each "Damage Opponent Check"?
OR is it Bite Damage to maintain the grapple; And then I have to chose between using the Armor Spike Damage and using the Rake Damage?
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This is actually a little bit of a weird one, but....
Grab let's you start a grapple as a free action, it doesn't let you maintain one. Maintaining a Grapple is about the worst way to go, since maintaining the Grapple only allows you to attack with one Natural Attack.
What you want to do is:
Round 1:
Pounce to attack with normal claws, Rake, and bite; initiate grapple
Round 2: Full attack with all weapons, Rake, claws, then Bite. Grapple ends if you miss with the bite, or bite hits and you initiate grapple.
Rinse and repeat.
The Grab special ability triggers on an attack with a natural weapon. When you maintain as a standard action, you aren't making an attack roll. So if you maintained the grapple with your Bite, you'd do so as a standard action, and that's all you'd get.
Reference from Grapple Entry:
"Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple)."
Reference from Grab entry:
"Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple."
ok, so Maintaining it would be a Standard Action, but it then says under grapple that I can do one of 4 things as part of the Standard Action, Damage being the one I'm interested in. Would the Tiger deal damage when maintaining the Grapple with its teeth? or by RAW does the Maintaining check preclude Damage dealing?
Rake makes it so that the tiger get 2 Claw attacks instead of one attack with a Natural Weapon when used in place of the damage option's choices.
So, basically Armor Spikes are useless for creatures with unarmed damage greater than 1d4 (medium) or 1d6 (Large), because you have to chose between Unarmed/Natural Weapons/Armor Spikes for your damage total, not adding the Spikes damage to the round?
If I had the tiger's INT to 3 and got Greater Grapple could I have it use Rake twice a round?
*Please let me know if this is the correct understanding*
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As Ssalarn said, it's just not worth it to maintain grapple, unless you want to pin someone. Grappling, as written, is generally not worth trying, unless you get to constrict or need to "shut down" a spellcaster. It makes more sense in one-on-one situations, but even then you could just spam nonlethal damage with your regular attacks. But if you have more than two attacks, it just isn't tactically sound to maintain grapple; you could try it with the hefty -20 penalty to your CMB, but that's just too brutal for level appropriate encounters (not to mention that you can still only maintain a single grapple per round). Usually it's far more sound for creatures with multiple attacks to always grab and immediately release the target after dealing any extra damage, then try it again with the next attack (rinse and repeat). Last session the players laughed and said this felt both unnatural and silly for a monster to do so, but that's how it stands as written.
ok, so Armor Spikes are useless and while preditors IRL maintain their grapples PF isn't RL so they nerfed that... got it. Thanks clearing it up for me.
On a related angle:
If the Tiger has Spring Attack and Pounce, can it use Spring attack during the Charge to go: Move -> Pounce ->Move? It'd be pretty sweet, sort of a Ride-by attack for the mount... But I'm leaning towards no because spring attack doesn't mention Charges in it's text.
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ok, so Armor Spikes are useless and while preditors IRL maintain their grapples PF isn't RL so they nerfed that... got it. Thanks clearing it up for me.
On a related angle:
If the Tiger has Spring Attack and Pounce, can it use Spring attack during the Charge to go: Move -> Pounce ->Move? It'd be pretty sweet, sort of a Ride-by attack for the mount... But I'm leaning towards no because spring attack doesn't mention Charges in it's text.
Spring Attack and Charge are both their own special Full Round actions, so they don't mix. Since you have to Charge to use Pounce, you can't Pounce during a Spring Attack. It's a bit lame, but there it is.